Yes, that's normal. And no, the bass-horn (i.e. the back horn) does not necessarily need to be front-firing, although speaking for myself, I prefer it.
Er, I think you'll find that's actually one of the main reasons to use a compound horn: employing a short midrange horn to fill in the gap between the upper corner frequency of a bass horn and the mass corner frequency of a low Q driver...
Have I missed a comment in this thread where someone has said they've tried it and it doesn't work? And (dare I ask?) what on Earth is that remark that 'the idea that someone else may have success hurts their pride' in aid of? There's been nothing but good advice / suggestions / thoughts provided so far to the OP. Since you quoted Pit's post, it appears that you've taken umbridge at it for some peculiar reason. As far as I can see, his advice is wise: Fostex drivers are worth looking at for good performance for the money, and it is usually advisible for people not used to working with wide band drivers to start out with a proven project & then, if they feel so inclined, use what they have discovered to help them design something tailored to their specific requirements. I can't quite see why you're making such a big deal out of it.
Good. That's as it should be. You design a speaker for your own needs. Both the boxes you mention above are, like most projects intended for other people, generic, rather than attempting to suit any one set of requirements. I suppose it's worth pointing out also that the former has been obsolescent for several years, and with the death of the FE207E, is now obsolete. I'd be concerned if anyone thought either were perfect or above reproach. No speaker is. Period.
If you'll forgive the expression, 'bollocks.' That's like saying 'once you've driven a Bentley, nothing else is worth considering.' Great. Tell that to the poor bloke who lives on a farm at the top of a hill, accessed only by a rutted track that's 3ft deep in snow all winter. In the same vein, if a person only has room for a small standmount speaker, are you suggesting that they shoud not bother with music because they lack the space for a compound horn? (I'm perfectly aware you are not; it's exaggeration for effect). Moving to the other extreme, a person who actually favours maximising dynamic BW will likely consider anything short of a 'proper' horn (viz. a reactance-annulled FLH with dedicated supporting HE woofers) to be for the very merest dilletante. In fact, they do. Ask Romy the Cat some time for his views.
None of which is to suggest that compound horns are anything other than a useful box type. But they're not a panacea either; they have their advantages and disadvantages like anything else. Oh, BTW, the FE206E is now defunct. Replaced by the (very similar, but not quite identical) FE206En.
Er, I think you'll find that's actually one of the main reasons to use a compound horn: employing a short midrange horn to fill in the gap between the upper corner frequency of a bass horn and the mass corner frequency of a low Q driver...
Have I missed a comment in this thread where someone has said they've tried it and it doesn't work? And (dare I ask?) what on Earth is that remark that 'the idea that someone else may have success hurts their pride' in aid of? There's been nothing but good advice / suggestions / thoughts provided so far to the OP. Since you quoted Pit's post, it appears that you've taken umbridge at it for some peculiar reason. As far as I can see, his advice is wise: Fostex drivers are worth looking at for good performance for the money, and it is usually advisible for people not used to working with wide band drivers to start out with a proven project & then, if they feel so inclined, use what they have discovered to help them design something tailored to their specific requirements. I can't quite see why you're making such a big deal out of it.
Good. That's as it should be. You design a speaker for your own needs. Both the boxes you mention above are, like most projects intended for other people, generic, rather than attempting to suit any one set of requirements. I suppose it's worth pointing out also that the former has been obsolescent for several years, and with the death of the FE207E, is now obsolete. I'd be concerned if anyone thought either were perfect or above reproach. No speaker is. Period.
If you'll forgive the expression, 'bollocks.'
That's like saying 'once you've driven a Bentley, nothing else is worth considering.' Great. Tell that to the poor bloke who lives on a farm at the top of a hill, accessed only by a rutted track that's 3ft deep in snow all winter. In the same vein, if a person only has room for a small standmount speaker, are you suggesting that they shoud not bother with music because they lack the space for a compound horn? (I'm perfectly aware you are not; it's exaggeration for effect). Moving to the other extreme, a person who actually favours maximising dynamic BW will likely consider anything short of a 'proper' horn (viz. a reactance-annulled FLH with dedicated supporting HE woofers) to be for the very merest dilletante. In fact, they do. Ask Romy the Cat some time for his views. None of which is to suggest that compound horns are anything other than a useful box type. But they're not a panacea either; they have their advantages and disadvantages like anything else. Oh, BTW, the FE206E is now defunct. Replaced by the (very similar, but not quite identical) FE206En.
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If you'll forgive the expression, 'bollocks.'
My last car in a long line of exotics. Nothing else is worth considering, best car I ever owned.
This is the naysaying of which I was referring. I was simply saying that seeing as the particular person to whom I was speaking has already stated that they don't care about size or complexity and are interested in compound horn designs that this would be the line of reasoning to follow. Perhaps I did a little exagerating to prove my point as well.
Ask Romy the Cat some time for his views.
None of which is to suggest that compound horns are anything other than a useful box type. But they're not a panacea either; they have their advantages and disadvantages like anything else. Oh, BTW, the FE206E is now defunct. Replaced by the (very similar, but not quite identical) FE206En.
Yeah I'll pass that's the guy who claims that Hornresp is a useless program. Madisound still lists the FE206E but has no price on it (obviously they just haven't deleted it yet) they do seem oddly to have the FE207E in stock. but they don't even mention the FE206En. Where can I find it along with it's specs. I guess there is no point in "perfecting" a design for a driver I can't buy. This seems to be one of those cases where we are arguing about misspoken words when we actually agree on most point. Let's just have a group e-hug here and get back to being helpful to each other.
That's the fella.
In fairness, he's a very sharp man indeed, & if you can get past his 'interesting' mode of expression (which if nothing else is good for a laugh & makes an effective reality-check) there's often something useful buried. I don't agree with him WRT Hornresp, although I know what he's trying to do (viz. remind people not to blindly follow software of any kind as it's only as good as what it covers. Which is fair enough, even if the method is 'a trifle' OTT). Definitely not a good man to discuss audio with though unless you happen to conform to his personal prejudices...
Probably not for much longer; they'll be selling off the drivers they have left in stock. All the new En model factory specs. are now up on the Fostex site: Full Range : FE Series - Speaker Components No more FExx7E units sadly, unless they have a change of heart (and that's not going to happen).
That's happened to me a few times. I won't repeat my language when I found out I couldn't get hold of the thing; suffice it to say, it wasn't what you'd find in 'polite' phrasebooks. The FE206En specs. are pretty close, but there are some differences. Then again, it's usually worth putting something like a 10% fudge-factor into a design anyway when working with factory specs., as even if they're telling the truth (depressingly uncommon), most manufacturers have about a +/- 10% QC tolerance for individual components & completed drivers.
Agreed. I think we're pretty much on the same page.
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True true and we all know that no one ever builds one pair of speakers and leaves it at that. It's like crack(or so I've heard) it's very addictive and you will want to keep building more.
I've done it successfully several times, and I imagine many others have too. If no one else was doing it I don't think the good Mr. McBean would have included the option in the wonderful program Hornresp. The attitude that something can't be done because no one has done it before is called defeatist. Imagine if the Wright brothers had had that attitude!! I don't mean to insult you but you keep saying something I've done many times can't be done. I think the problem your having is that when you make the front horn too large it goes to low and is out of phase with the rear horn so the frequencies you think you're not getting you're just getting twice out of phase so they cancel.
If you do a search of my name you'll find all the pics you desire. (I don't have them on this computer) I haven't done actual measurements but I have a pretty sensitive ear. We have had them in many many different rooms and done frequency sweeps and played test tones and done simulations up the wazoo! Check out the compound horn feature on Hornresp. I have in practice(as have others) found that even when simulations show a null where the two horns crossover it is in reality not even close to as pronounced as the simulations show. On a good low Q driver the acoustic crossover can be put at about 200hz (or possibly even lower) and the front horn can be kept small (500cc or less)with very good results.
Scott,
don´t allow reality to pull wool over your, erm, ears in this case - what I haven´t tried must be impossible, right?
Well, in fact...buddy of mine ( sneaky bastid, Hermann is) once turned the wick up on a very noiseless amp and the first sound I heard was Charly Antolini playing drums, 2 x 400W at close quarter. When I got my head out of the hole it had punched through the wall a pair of VOTT grinned at me.
As soon as I find money and workspace I´d love to give a compound thingy a try - that midrange kick is worth the odd new windowpane.
don´t allow reality to pull wool over your, erm, ears in this case - what I haven´t tried must be impossible, right?
Well, in fact...buddy of mine ( sneaky bastid, Hermann is) once turned the wick up on a very noiseless amp and the first sound I heard was Charly Antolini playing drums, 2 x 400W at close quarter. When I got my head out of the hole it had punched through the wall a pair of VOTT grinned at me.
As soon as I find money and workspace I´d love to give a compound thingy a try - that midrange kick is worth the odd new windowpane.
Last week when i placed an order for FE167 & FE207 i asked my rep about transition to the new models.
My rep figures there are a couple months supply of FE167e/207e & 126e. 206e was sold out and 206En were being shipped.
dave
Hi all,
I am new to this thread and site but for years have been thinking of the benefits of using the front wave as well as the back wave of a given driver, particularly what stands out is the principle of efficiency. It is doubled, no!? combine this thinking with full-range, one driver per channel, (left-right) and a number of other ideas such as crossover and phase are addressed.
AX then Speaker Builder Mag had an article by Bruce Edgar of a 70Hz corner horn years back, don't remember the year. I extended and reworked the wooden back chamber so that a triangular colum rose up behind and above the top and back of the corner horn to receive in a circular hole on the front plate the driver, in my case a Audax 4 incher mounted on a concrete Tractrix horn, also described in Speaker Builder Mag. As Bruce said take care you have no air leaks! That's when the base came out! Placed in a corner these little units sounded so good with fair and tight base.
I studied and built the Jensen Imperial design and desided that my triangular back volume acts as a resonant chamber. I made two proto types one with larger volume by a 6th. But for the audax the smaller one works better.
For what it is worth the spacial and lively aspect is well represented.
Robert
I am new to this thread and site but for years have been thinking of the benefits of using the front wave as well as the back wave of a given driver, particularly what stands out is the principle of efficiency. It is doubled, no!? combine this thinking with full-range, one driver per channel, (left-right) and a number of other ideas such as crossover and phase are addressed.
AX then Speaker Builder Mag had an article by Bruce Edgar of a 70Hz corner horn years back, don't remember the year. I extended and reworked the wooden back chamber so that a triangular colum rose up behind and above the top and back of the corner horn to receive in a circular hole on the front plate the driver, in my case a Audax 4 incher mounted on a concrete Tractrix horn, also described in Speaker Builder Mag. As Bruce said take care you have no air leaks! That's when the base came out! Placed in a corner these little units sounded so good with fair and tight base.
I studied and built the Jensen Imperial design and desided that my triangular back volume acts as a resonant chamber. I made two proto types one with larger volume by a 6th. But for the audax the smaller one works better.
For what it is worth the spacial and lively aspect is well represented.
Robert
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