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Old 18th February 2010, 06:54 AM   #1
lazyfly is offline lazyfly  Australia
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Default Sat + Sub using MA -- but which one?

Hi folks,

Where to start. I guess the idea of making this short and sweet leaves too many potential questions. So I'll try and make it fairly short!

I've tried Brynn's - Lovely but lacking any headroom or real bottom end. Not a criticism fella's so please don't take it as such. They've been in and out of rooms and systems since I made them so they must be doing something right

I've tried a Coral Flat 10 2's in OB with a 10" woofer in vented below (current setup). OB just doesn't quite work in the room. The room is too compact for 2x 10" drivers. Seating distance is <2.5m (7 - 8ft).

I've tried a few multi-ways, too. For whatever reason, I'm pretty wrapped in FR's so traditional 2, 2.5 etc are out.

My favourite so far is CSS FR125 in MTM with a weeny 10mm Audax tweeter. It brought the mids out, gave more power handling and a fuller more rounded sound. It has a coil to roll off the FR around 9k and a cap that lets the tweeter kick in around the same frequency.

What I'd like to try now though is a small sealed / vented / aperiodic with a woofer. I'd like to cross over to the woofer at around 150Hz. I'd like to avoid using a tweeter so the smaller drivers are likely the go.

Which MA driver would suit the bill to the best of anyones knowledge? I'm thinking the MA 7 for that xo point. The 6 may have a bit more shimmer up top but is likely to get the new spider and cone ala 7, 12 and now 10v2.

So anyway. I'll probably use 8" woofers. Maybe the CSS Trio 8's as the published SPL is so damn close. Probably plates amps at first but if it works well, a proper SS amp (Rod Elliot's P3A). The MA's will be hooked up to p - p EL34's.

So fella's, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the topic. A reasonably large and full sound with pleanty of detail and a bit of headroom using a small FR and a smallish woofer in 2 separate cabinets, a little bit like Goldmund use.

Cheers and Happy Weekend
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Old 18th February 2010, 08:10 AM   #2
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Th enew cone & dustcap tech in the Alpair 7 should give it the edge over the Alpair 6 (my 7s are on the break-in bench, A6s awaiting EnABL).

The SDX7 is a good performer, the Trio 8 looks to have more bang for the buck at teh expense of a bigger box. I'd recommend either.

For a passive XO, you usually want to have the woofer more efficient then the mid-tweeter and use that to your advantage to help deal with baffle step, since you are going active it isn't a big deal.

dave
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Old 18th February 2010, 08:10 AM   #3
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I hear the Alpair 7 is good up to 30khz, and flat to about 100hz sealed, so that should make your crossover easy enough. And the reviews are suggesting that the new Alpair's (7 and 12) are real improvements over the previous designs.

But since Mark himself is active on these forums, you should ask him
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Old 18th February 2010, 09:03 AM   #4
lazyfly is offline lazyfly  Australia
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Thanks Dave and Seekerr.

I appreciate the viewpoints and am quite happy with the recommendations thus far If all goes well then the plate amps will be replaced by a Rod Elliot P3A which can have the gain adjusted -- probably with some jumpers to choose between R values in the beginning.

And yes, good point Seekerr. With luck Mark will recognise the 'MA' in the title

Dan at Darcher hasn't got the 7's yet (he has the 12's so maybe close?). I'll fling him an email over the weekend. If the 7 goes well I'll do a A12 in a dedicated cab all by its lonesome.

Actually, there's a Q I had. Where does the 6 fit in now the 7 is out? Even if the 6 gets updated to 7 spec re: cone, dustcap et al ?
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Old 18th February 2010, 09:14 AM   #5
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If Darcher doesn't have 7s in stock, you'll need to wait until the next batch. Mark got caught by surprise with how popular these have been. I have my name on the 1st 2 off the assembly line.

Don't count on seeing a new 6 for a bit is my guess. The 7 is a nominal 4", the 6 nominal 3.5", the 5 a nominal 3", making things pretty crowded. The 7 really fills the same role of the 6 but better.

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Old 18th February 2010, 04:09 PM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
If Darcher doesn't have 7s in stock, you'll need to wait until the next batch. Mark got caught by surprise with how popular these have been. I have my name on the 1st 2 off the assembly line.

Don't count on seeing a new 6 for a bit is my guess. The 7 is a nominal 4", the 6 nominal 3.5", the 5 a nominal 3", making things pretty crowded. The 7 really fills the same role of the 6 but better.

dave

Regardless of Mark's ability to design an OEM or retail driver for virtually any niche, he's certainly got to be concerned about too much overlap.

Sooner or later in the process of rationalizing the line-up, and particularly as the designs and manufacturing processes evolve, we could probably expect some models to be put on "hiatus", or limited "special collector's edition" basis.

In the current economic climate, I guess there are worse problems a manufacturer could have than being able to meet the increasing demand for product.

(I hope that doesn't jinx things)


Lazyfly:

re the Brynn, something that Dave & I have talked about is adding some reinforcement to the lower section and shoehorning a (rear firing) SDX7 for bass assistance - the SDX7 'cause it works well in silly small enclosure volumes

of course there'd be no room for an internal passive XO, and after experiments with designs like the Tysen, etc. we'd be inclined to PLLXO or active and bi-amping

most DIY addicts probably already have more than enough amps around, and fiddling with the naughty bits for the XO shouldn't be much of a challenge either
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Old 19th February 2010, 12:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyfly View Post
Hi folks,
Where to start. I guess the idea of making this short and sweet leaves too many potential questions. So I'll try and make it fairly short!

The room is too compact for 2x 10" drivers. Seating distance is <2.5m (7 - 8ft). I've tried a few multi-ways, too. For whatever reason, I'm pretty wrapped in FR's so traditional 2, 2.5 etc are out.

What I'd like to try now though is a small sealed / vented / aperiodic with a woofer. I'd like to cross over to the woofer at around 150Hz. I'd like to avoid using a tweeter so the smaller drivers are likely the go.

Which MA driver would suit the bill to the best of anyones knowledge? I'm thinking the MA 7 for that xo point. The 6 may have a bit more shimmer up top but is likely to get the new spider and cone ala 7, 12 and now 10v2.

So anyway. I'll probably use 8" woofers. Maybe the CSS Trio 8's as the published SPL is so damn close. Probably plates amps at first but if it works well, a proper SS amp (Rod Elliot's P3A). The MA's will be hooked up to p - p EL34's.

So fella's, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the topic. A reasonably large and full sound with pleanty of detail and a bit of headroom using a small FR and a smallish woofer in 2 separate cabinets, a little bit like Goldmund use.
Cheers and Happy Weekend
Hi L,
Just caught up with this thread. Going on what's said so far I'd suggest the Alpair 7 in sealed with an Trio 8" woof doing the LF. At 7' to 8' listening distance, you'll get nice imagery from the 7's. There's not much to be gained with bigger drivers given your listening distance. Also, EL34 tubes work nicely with the Alp7's. I've been using Tony Wong's EL34 with much pleasure.

Hi Chris B,
Yes, I'm going through my build plans for this year. Drivers below Alpair 7 size are getting a make-over. Most of my business in Alp5 and Alp6 size is for the desktop/near-field and OEM markets, whereas CHR-70, CHP-70's, Alp7, Alp10 and Alp12 tend to be more popular with Full-Range purists. This is interesting as I'd like to encourage experimentation with mini-drivers in full range applications. But there's always going to be limits on how much LF performance can be extracted from mini-drivers, hence a sort of natural cut-off at Alp7/CHR-70 size.

Generally...........

I'm working on a new direction for the Alpair 6 using a new paper cone I made just before Christmas. The new 6's range is slightly wider and SPL will rise by around 2dB. Its niche seems to be more high-end desktop and mini-full range. I hope to say more about this in my section of the forum.

The Alpair 7's popularity has taken me by surprise given the strong presence of the CHR. Japan took most of the first crop of 7's, Germany following close second. This size of driver is so versatile and given the 7's extended range, its useful for many audio applications.

New Alpair 7's, CHR-70's, Tweeter No.3's and my new 6.5"woofs will be made this March to early April. I'll be a busy boy with my sleeves well and truly rolled up, huddled over a production line in the coming weeks. Production of new generation Alpair 5's, 6's and 10's should follow in April to May. There may also be an Alp12 wide-bass as there's requests for this model coming from Germany.

Cheers

Mark.
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Last edited by markaudio; 19th February 2010 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Typo mending
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