F.A.S.T. Project: Tangband W3-315 vs. MARK AUDIO CHR-70, CSS EL-70 or Alpair

W3-315 in F.A.S.T. project or Mark Audio CHR-70 what do your prefer

  • W3-315E as F.A.S.T.

    Votes: 9 18.8%
  • Mark Audio CHR-70

    Votes: 34 70.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 10.4%

  • Total voters
    48
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Up to now, I am listening to Tangband 3'' driver W3-315E in a fullrange ML TL called "TABAQ" (http://coolcat.dk/bjoern/TABAQ_TL_for_TB.pdf)

This enclosure is by far better than the Cyburg Needles, because it's tuned more exactly for this speaker (f3 is really 50 Hz !).

I like especially this Tangband W3-315E because of his ridge hightone characteristic. It sounds more fresh and more open than all other Tangband speakers, I've tested before.

Now the disadvantage about my current project:
There is a strong limitation in output power and bass pressure overall (who wonders, it's only 3'' driver).

Coming to the idea to give the W3-315E bass support through a F.A.S.T. system. I'd like to use the Mission CP-164, 4 Ohm Bass, that is already lying around in my home (look:Mission_CP-164.pdf - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com)

There already exists another DIY Project with W3-315, called Daisy, from Udo Wolgemuth. But if you have a look at it, it's looking very ugly (my taste).

My idea is to build a 27 L Bassreflex enclosure for the Mission CP164, tuned to 43 Hz, build in sidewise. Looking like the Visaton Stella Light from Klang und Ton 06/2009 (pictures and description STELLA LIGHT - Visaton Diskussionsforum).

As I explained, the aim of this F.A.S.T. project is to implement the W3-315E in a more efficient way (I could imagine running it from 150/200 Hz with crossover), and giving more bass support for the system overall (the work for the Mission CP164).

The second choice (and that's my question) is to use a different speaker in fullrange enclosure. I had a look at Mark Audio's CHR-70 which should have similar characteristic in hightone freshness as the the W3-315E, with the advantage of giving better fullrange response overall.
I know, going to a Mark Audio Alpair 7, Alpair 8 or Alpair 10 should also work,
but these speakers I find a bit too expensive and I think they are lacking of my favourized hightone freshness.

So, who can give my either advice for F.A.S.T. with W3-315E and crossover design or different project with Mark Audio CHR-70 (maybe CSS EL-70) ?
 
Hi Jokel77

You've made a typo as there's no Alpair 8.

I guess you've not had the chance to listen to my second generation drivers Alpair 7 and 12. With the 7's range going to 30-kHz, it's got allot more "freshness". Its one of the reasons for large sales in Japan where extended range is recognised as a technical advance; And detail and clarity are favoured.

Cheers,

Mark.
 
Talking of FAST, ZING and could we say PING? (more puns)

Anyway, here's blogs in Japan initiated by Supiken. Worth a look as a number of driver makers are listed, including Mine, Tangbang. Fostex etc.:

手作りスピーカーç*”究室「ã�™ã�´ç*”ã€�ブãƒ*ã‚° » 2010 » 1月 » 4

手作りスピーカーç*”究室「ã�™ã�´ç*”ã€�ブãƒ*ã‚° » 2009 » 12月 » 30

Anyone recommend a good on-line language translator? I'm using Yahoo's Bable Fish, sort of OK but phases can be a bit weird.

Cheers

Mark.
 
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Thank you Mark for pointing me to Alpair 7 having a lot more freshness than the earlier Alpairs (Alpair 5, Alpair 6, Alpair 10). After reading the posts in this thread I gave up the idea of building a FAST-System with W3-315E. Tysen is really an interesting project, too.
Thanks for the link, planet10.

As most of the thread readers voted for CHR-70. The CHR-70 is my favourite chassis at the moment. I looked up for an interesting enclosure design at
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/141496-mark-audio-chr-70-application-thread-32.html
Henkjan posted this link. It's a project for CHR70 called "Torretta" from RumoH Zelfbouw Luidsprekers, Netherlands.
What really makes me interesting in this project is that it should come out without any filter or LCR circuit. Is that a profit of the Torreta's design or is it also to build in the CHR-70 in other designs without filter ?
If it's the same, I'd choose the "Pencil" design from Mark Audio.

Final question:
What is the main difference between Alpair 7 and CHR-70 in performance ?
Really strong differences hearable ? I ask because, there's a strong difference in price,
so if the difference is not much, why not taking the CHR-70 for project.
(I assume that CHR-70 plays with the same "freshness" as Alpair 7).
 
Final question:
What is the main difference between Alpair 7 and CHR-70 in performance ?
Really strong differences hearable ? I ask because, there's a strong difference in price,
so if the difference is not much, why not taking the CHR-70 for project.
(I assume that CHR-70 plays with the same "freshness" as Alpair 7).

Hi Jockel,
Thanks for asking, I think the primary reason for the popularity of the CHR-70 is its price-performance ratio. Hard to measure objectively but the feedback I get is nearly all based on its overall acoustic abilities given its moderate pricing.

Technically, the Alpair 7 is a much different and more advanced acoustic entity.

1 - Frequency range. The Alpair 7 whistles past the CHR-70 by around 10-kHz in the upper bands.

2 - The Alpair 7's emittance pattern is far superior to the CHR-70. This particularly applies in ranges beyond 5-kHz. The micro-resonance generated by the Alpair 7 is 1.1-1.3 times (inter-peak) greater than the CHR-70 in +6 -kHz critical bands.

3 - The Alpair 7's low emittance performance is more linear due mainly to the Matsubara San suspension. There's more info on this is my slot in Manufacturers section of the forum.

As best as can be described: "asking an engineer to surmise freshness".....??????.....ummmmmph, we could say the CHR-70 score a reasonable 6.5 out of 10 given its price while the Alpair is past 8.5.

I'll see if Norio can comment. He's a guitarist and knows both drivers very well. His ears are very musical so may offer a perspective from a listeners point of view. I'll rush back to my work room and machinery.

Hope this helps.

Mark.
 
As far as the CHR70 & A7 go, presentation is quite different. They share the same broad house-sound / character, but that's about as far as it goes. The A7 has substantially more detail; probably a result of greater linearity in the powertrain. Mark has already commented on this side of things. Much more top end extension, half an octave out of our audibility band, & less forgiving of upstream components than the cheaper unit which tends to flatter them. OTOH, it's dispersion is better, so there's less performance drop-off off-axis. They're both very nice units for their respective price points; if you can afford to go for the Alpair 7, then I'd go for it, but the CHR is a great entry-level driver.
 
Thank you Mark and Scottmoose,

great description between the sonic differences between CHR-70 and Alpair 7.
As I understand the Alpair 7 is the more "audiophil" driver with more details and
more dynamic. That's what I would prefer.
As I've seen on Planet10 webside, you've already calculated a ML TL for both drivers,
Scottmoose, nice work !
Can you tell me anything about the tuning frequence (f3) of the ML TL designs ?
As the Alpair 7 has more "life-feeling" performance (don't know how to describe that) with more hightone details - is there a strong need for LCR circuit ?
 
Hi Scott,
Many thanks for your comments; And glad you mentioned up-stream components. For Alpair 7 and 12, they work much better on an audiophile grade signal feed. I'd err on the side of caution for anyone thinking of using plain vanilla amplification and source components on these drivers. The CHR-70 will be more forgiving.

I've had to retire my old Sony Taf 333EX amp (sob sob). Being a child of the Mofset generation (almost), I've held on cuddled my Sony for years as its the all-Japan model, but its no longer able to cut the mustard for the new Alps. I've migrated to one of Tony Wong's 300B amps. It's made a big difference to the Alp7's that I'm running at home.

Now I must look at replacing my Sony X333EX CD player. That's also showing its age. Urrrrgh an expensive month! Any recommendations for a replacement CD player?

Must dash,

Mark.
 

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