On this page planet_10 hifi, under the ML-TLs, i have created a series of auxilary boxes for HT originally for use with the CHR microTowers, but certainly could be used by themselves or with any of the metal cone MA boxes as mains. Excepting the possibility that the larger basket won't physically fit, the Alpair 7 could be substitutued for an upgrade.
dave
dave
Hi Dave,
do you planning to place more details in your plans (like frequencity/impedance charts) or at least f3/6/8?
cheers
vlado
Attached is a sim of undamped sealed enclosures of 4, 5, 7, 10, 15 litres. Stuffing material will make the boxes seem larger, decreasing the bump and extending the f3 downward. Room placement -- usually on the wall, will extend the bottom significantly. As per Toole, they should all be cut off at 80 Hz, so extension is sufficient.
If one wants to reduce Q any of these could be aperiodically vented.
dave
If one wants to reduce Q any of these could be aperiodically vented.
dave
Attachments
Hi Rick,
Hope you had a good Christmas; And thanks to Dave for interesting posts and plans.
Interestingly, Graham in Hong Kong is working on a combined in Stereo-Home Theatre system. The plan is to use Pensil 12 (Alpair 12) cabs for front left and right, a single Alpair 12 in a sealed box for the centre channel. For the rear left and right, a pair of Alpair 7's in each ported tower cab. It would be interesting to go all Alpair 12 but there may be some space limitations around the sofa.
Graham has one of Brian Cherry's KT-88 (errrrgh.....can't think of its name, old age I guess) and a posh Ayre CD player from Charles. So it's stereo with the Pencils for an extensive CD collection (Graham works in the music publishing business), switching to a Pioneer HT amp for films. Graham will add a Sub for extra bass on the HT side.
I'll ask Graham to comment as this project unfolds. Graham runs his own web site so will make a link as info becomes available.
Cheers
Mark.
Hope you had a good Christmas; And thanks to Dave for interesting posts and plans.
Interestingly, Graham in Hong Kong is working on a combined in Stereo-Home Theatre system. The plan is to use Pensil 12 (Alpair 12) cabs for front left and right, a single Alpair 12 in a sealed box for the centre channel. For the rear left and right, a pair of Alpair 7's in each ported tower cab. It would be interesting to go all Alpair 12 but there may be some space limitations around the sofa.
Graham has one of Brian Cherry's KT-88 (errrrgh.....can't think of its name, old age I guess) and a posh Ayre CD player from Charles. So it's stereo with the Pencils for an extensive CD collection (Graham works in the music publishing business), switching to a Pioneer HT amp for films. Graham will add a Sub for extra bass on the HT side.
I'll ask Graham to comment as this project unfolds. Graham runs his own web site so will make a link as info becomes available.
Cheers
Mark.
Thanks Dave, as usual lots of interesting stuff to consider on your site. Good stuff.
Rick
Thanks Mark, I hope you had a good Christmas in your household as well.
What I'm contemplating here is a 5.1 system for our bedroom, so it won't have any bearing on my 2 channel rig downstairs.
The boss, errrr wife and I often like to watch movies at night after the little ones are asleep and it's both comfy and convenient to do this in our bedroom. I've already got a 32" flat screen in there so now all I have to do is decide on a video receiver, new dvd player and of course the all important speaker set up. I'd like to keep the speakers reasonably small as it's only a 16' x 14' room. I may try and incorporate the center channel and the sub into the cabinet I build for the project. That just leaves the front mains and the rear speakers to worry about. A small pair of thin towers could work up front, but the rear speakers will have to be wall mounted.
I'll keep an eye on the project you referenced earlier. Do you anticipate anything being up on that soon?
As always thanks for the response.
Rick
Hi Rick,
OK, I understand your needs. Small thin towers and rear wall mounts in 16X14 room. Yep I'd say CHR-70, EL-70 or Alpair 7 if the budget (or boss) will allow.
These drivers are a nice balance between size, power handling and should cover the room size OK.
Graham has a very large living room, hence his system will be bigger in scale. The system will be built here in HK so I think Graham will post in the coming days and weeks.
Happy new year,
Mark.
OK, I understand your needs. Small thin towers and rear wall mounts in 16X14 room. Yep I'd say CHR-70, EL-70 or Alpair 7 if the budget (or boss) will allow.
These drivers are a nice balance between size, power handling and should cover the room size OK.
Graham has a very large living room, hence his system will be bigger in scale. The system will be built here in HK so I think Graham will post in the coming days and weeks.
Happy new year,
Mark.
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Dave, after taking some more time to look at the HT system you linked to from your site. What would be the recommendation for a sub?
As far as the rest goes, that looks really good and would most likely fit & work well in our room.
Thanks again.
Rick
Hi Rick,
OK, I understand your needs. Small thin towers and rear wall mounts in 16X14 room. Yep I'd say CHR-70, EL-70 or Alpair 7 if the budget (or boss) will allow.
These drivers are a nice balance between size, power handling and should cover the room size OK.
Graham's has a very large living room, hence his system will be bigger in scale. The system will be built here in HK so I think Graham will post in the coming days and weeks.
Happy new year,
Mark.
Mark, let me ask you the same question, and remember I'm not as up on your product line as I'd like to be yet, but what would you recommend for a sub in a 5.1 HT system?
Also, the drivers you referenced earlier, those are all full range correct? I'd really like to avoid any crossovers in this system.
Thanks
Rick
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Something good. Preferrablly a pair. I like the smaller ones, as they usually have a more extended HF response which really helps with integration with the FR.
I've been very pleased with the CSS SDX7, but it really can't be called a sub. I am now playing with CSS Trio8 & SDX10.
dave
Hi Rick,
As per Dave I'd suggest a pair if possible. For the 16X14 room, smaller active subs may be good.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of subs in general but I appreciate their dramatic effect in HT use. I'd suggest looking for subs that have drivers with the lower MMS and soft mechanical compliance. 2 Reasons:
First, resonance and micro-resonance patterns from low mass cones usually have fewer losses. In other words, the dynamics coming from the emitting surface contain more musical detail.
Second, your room is a moderate size, there's less need for big high power output subs.
CHR's, EL's and Alp7's can operate <50Hz so I guess blending subs in from 60 to 100Hz is about right. See what's available in this range that's on the smaller side.
Hope this helps
Cheers,
Mark.
As per Dave I'd suggest a pair if possible. For the 16X14 room, smaller active subs may be good.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of subs in general but I appreciate their dramatic effect in HT use. I'd suggest looking for subs that have drivers with the lower MMS and soft mechanical compliance. 2 Reasons:
First, resonance and micro-resonance patterns from low mass cones usually have fewer losses. In other words, the dynamics coming from the emitting surface contain more musical detail.
Second, your room is a moderate size, there's less need for big high power output subs.
CHR's, EL's and Alp7's can operate <50Hz so I guess blending subs in from 60 to 100Hz is about right. See what's available in this range that's on the smaller side.
Hope this helps
Cheers,
Mark.
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Let me clarify some stuff. There are drivers called subwoofers whose whole purpose is to produce dramatic effects in HT and sound like crap.
Then there are woofers that go low that sound good with music or HT.
The former are just low fidelity and should be avoided.
The latter, properly implemented & properly placed can produce a solid foundation for the music. It is a rare room that does not have local peaks & dips with a single "subwoofer". It takes a minimum of 2 to have the woofers fill the room with fairly smooth base. (Toole's book is an indispensible reference here)
dave
Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking was just something to beef up the lower end as full rangers tend to be a bit soft in the bass spectrum. Plus I can't afford to build large enclosures for the mains as I just don't have room for them in this bedroom setting.
Actually I was thinking of a pair of Alpair 10 BW's. Does this not make sense?
Actually I was thinking of a pair of Alpair 10 BW's. Does this not make sense?
On the sub front, I have been using and I am very pleased with Exodus Audio line of subs. I am using the Maelstrom 18" with dual passive 18"s in it. The CSS products are very good as well. I have not had any myself, but have heard nothing but good things about them.
Either Exodus or CSS provides optimal boxes sizes, not physical boxes, for their subs. And as Dave pointed out, they will sound very good with music or HT. Many commerical subs are 'loaded' for big booms and thunderous roar, but usually are a bit bloated for music.
Lastly, I used a pro amp, QSC 1850, to drive my sub. I put in a modified fan so you can't hear it run. Be very picky in chosing a sub amp. They all are not created equal.
Exodus just came out with a mid-woof and I just bought three for my mains that I'm going to pair with some Alpair-7s. For the surrounds, I'm looking at using the CHR-70s. Should be very good setup and I will be soliciting some crossover guidance/help shortly from the DIY group in this endeavor.
Either Exodus or CSS provides optimal boxes sizes, not physical boxes, for their subs. And as Dave pointed out, they will sound very good with music or HT. Many commerical subs are 'loaded' for big booms and thunderous roar, but usually are a bit bloated for music.
Lastly, I used a pro amp, QSC 1850, to drive my sub. I put in a modified fan so you can't hear it run. Be very picky in chosing a sub amp. They all are not created equal.
Exodus just came out with a mid-woof and I just bought three for my mains that I'm going to pair with some Alpair-7s. For the surrounds, I'm looking at using the CHR-70s. Should be very good setup and I will be soliciting some crossover guidance/help shortly from the DIY group in this endeavor.
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Hi Rick,
My natural inclination is on Dave's side. Most active subs available from the high street aren't going to be High Fidelity. But, where Home Theatre is concerned, drama is an important element and building large enclosures for traditional woofs tends to be impractical due to limited room space for many folks.
Alp 10 Bass units could be a possibility depending on how much room you can spare for a larger cab, maybe something around 20 to 25 litres? You may need these sorts of volumes to keep the resonance F low. Please bear in mind that A10-Bass units don't handle allot of power so a pair of sub cabs would be better. I've never designed a sub enclosure so this a starting suggestion. It may be best to explore some sub enclosure design calcs on the web and see how Alpair 10's work out.
Cheers,
Mark.
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It's more a case of limited power-handling (and therefore low frequency dynamic range) that FR units suffer from as opposed to lack of extension. A couple of SDX7s would probably do; personally I wouldn't try using the A10 bass unit for sub-applications; it's more of a midbass & you'd have to go very careful if you tried using it in sub designs.
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