First DIY build - wall mounted speakers for T-amp?

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Hi people - first post, looking for some advice on first venture into diy audio!

I've just moved to Canadia from the UK having sold all of my old hifi gear, and am going back to basics with my new system - priorities are cheap (CDN $300), natural & warm sounding, efficient (i.e. not using a 1000W surround receiver to listen to jazz), high WAF.

First component acquired is a GenII T-Amp and I now need some nice easy-to-drive speakers. Couldn't find much in stores, so googled a bit and found this site - inspirational (also planet10 and diyaudioprojects.com - phenomenal stuff)!. Anyway, speakers need to be:


  • Efficient (simple, natural, easy to drive, so 90db/1w/1m+?)
  • Well rounded, warm sound (i.e. not too bright, with some bass) - jazz, classical and indie rock'n'roll for me
  • Under $250
  • Buildable without a table-saw
  • Wall mounted (out of reach of kids/cats; high WAF) - note: not able to mount in-wall (old lath + plaster walls)
  • Sound good in a 14' X 12' living room (speakers on 12' wall)
So far, these two designs seem to be the contenders:

Fonkens - http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/Fonken-1v01a-map.pdf

Fostex FE12E Bass Reflex - Fostex FE127E DIY Bass Reflex Bookshelf Speakers

Questions are -

  1. If wall mounted, can I get away without a BSC?
  2. Given they'll be on a wall, is it worth going the extra mile for the Fonken cabinet build (seems harder), and/or shelling out more for EnABL'd drivers?
  3. Which of these designs would, in theory give a better low-end performance (assuming that's going to be the weakpoint of a full-range speaker)?
Right... long first post - sorry! Happy Christmas all...:deer:
 
Contact Dave via PM - he has a few variations for wall mounted designs (as opposed to built-ins) that have been "modeled" but not to my knowledge built yet.


the buildable without a table saw could be the tricky part - but a flat-pak kit is certainly do-able - however, you will need a few clamps for some of these designs. (can't have too many clamps)
 
Does your workspace have room for a sawboard? Any of these projects will require some precise straight cuts. If it has to be dustless assembly, then a prebuilt or flat pack will work.

The FE127 is a good selection for projects. You can take it to larger more complex builds as you move into the hobby.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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When you are mounting on a wall, keeping the depth as shallow as possible is a good goal.

For wall mount & ease of build, Fonken FloorStander Mk I (or Mk II without the voids) should be high on your list. Some of the details can be juggled to optimize for wall mount (change port exit, move driver down the baffle)

dave
 
@chrisb, thanks - will pick Dave's brains. I haven't seen many examples of the shallow, square wall fonkens online, let alone up close and personal... was thinking that the bass reflex-ish enclosures would provide better bass, but I have zero experience in this area!

@loninappleton - sawboard (like this one?) - genius idea. Will go and make one for the straight edge cuts. The fonken build needs a fair amount of accurate 45 degree mitres as well though, and I seem to remember reading that this cut is done after assembling as a box... so might have to make a second sawboard for a mitre cut. Still - that sounds like a great idea!
 
...For wall mount & ease of build, Fonken FloorStander Mk I (or Mk II without the voids) should be high on your list. Some of the details can be juggled to optimize for wall mount (change port exit, move driver down the baffle)

Thanks Dave,

Mounting floorstanders on a wall sounds unorthodox, but the cabs do look easier to build (no mitres). I suppose the fact that they're shallow also improves things?

RE: detail juggling, I'm not exactly sure what would be "safe" to juggle. Are the "voids" the base part that would be filled with sand, or are you suggesting reducing the overall height of the cab?

Finally, would you advocate moving the port to the side or front of the cab?

So many questions! Thanks for the advice so far!
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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I suppose the fact that they're shallow also improves things?

yes.

RE: detail juggling, I'm not exactly sure what would be "safe" to juggle. Are the "voids" the base part that would be filled with sand
Finally, would you advocate moving the port to the side or front of the cab?

We'll help you juggle :)

Yes, that is the void. My 1st thot was to run the port right thru the end of the box.

dave
 

Egads man! Thanks, but perhaps something to attempt after I've conquered the challenge of cutting a straight line in plywood. Also, looks like it'd be a bit all-speaker-no-wall.

My 1st thot was to run the port right thru the end of the box

Ah, so it would fire at the floor? Interessant, however ...

I took a more detailed look at the measurements compared to the wall space, and the 30" (for MKII) height (despite shallow depth, and having no void) is going to be problematic for WAF.

What about taking the standard fonken cabinet and making that shallower? Is that even legal? Or would that just sound bad?
 
Ah, so it would fire at the floor? Interessant, however ...

I took a more detailed look at the measurements compared to the wall space, and the 30" (for MKII) height (despite shallow depth, and having no void) is going to be problematic for WAF.

What about taking the standard fonken cabinet and making that shallower? Is that even legal? Or would that just sound bad?


as mentioned in a previous post, Dave has already calculated at least a couple of variations of wall mount versions of this series, as well as for other drivers ( Mark/CSS etc)

if you're interested, he could probably dig some of those out - but it could take a while - he has literally thousands of pictures, renderings and fully detailed CAD drawing in his archives
 
any room at all on the left side of the TV, even if above "standard" height?

the wall location sketched in on your photo would be fine for music, but I think would be too decorrelated from the video image on TV/ movies

otherwise, an option might be a pair of small size enclosures on the shelf below the TV ("hi-fi stuff"), titled up slightly; or if the TV is a flat panel monitor, the speakers could also be attached to wood or metal plates bolted to the wall bracket threaded fittings on the back of the TV

I've been thinking of something like that for my wife's bedroom TV - at the moment some old Boston micro speakers driven by Trends T-amp are mounted below the TV on an obsolete wall mounted corner shelf. I'm pretty sure that a new pair of FF85K or CHR70 would be a huge improvement.
 
Thanks guys - agree about the placement of TV. Negotiations are ongoing regarding the future of the (never-lit) fireplace). May need to be cut down to size with a sledgehammer.

Anyway, back to these still-theoretical speakers. I borrowed some Paradigm Atom Monitors over the festive period just to see how things sounded with the T-Amp. They weren't super efficient (I think 87db was the stated figure), but they were plenty loud enough with the volume knob at 20-30%. They had enough bass for my needs, in fact they were booming a bit against the wall (rear firing ports).

So... this leads me to maybe consider the CSS drivers (EL70 or FR125SR) as these are said to have better bass performance than the Fostex, despite lower sensitivity? What do you think?

As expected, got some negative WAF feedback on the super-tall (30"+)/not-deep wall mount designs, but the planet10 half/microTower designs for the EL70 might be workable.

So here's where I'm at:

Bookshelf cab - high WAF :) but will probably sound terrible against wall :-(
Wall mounted tall slim cab - low WAF :-( but may sound better

Any hybrid designs out there? Shallower than the Fonken, but not as tall as the towers? Should I just make one with the same internal dimensions and hope for the best?
 
My money would be on the EL70 in "microtowers" - if you think there's room in the corners for a diagonally placed pair of approx 8" square footprint boxes, the "castle" dual driver version (one driver up-firing) would certainly fill the small room, and most likely you'd not need a sub.

Since WAF is important (smart man!) maybe give her a quick look at the photos on page 2 here:

http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/microTower-maps-150909.pdf

you might be surprised at the reaction - I was when I placed these upstairs (I get the den and my own room, but the living room is hers). After a couple of months with them, and using her new MacBook and AEX for streaming her tunes, she's even warming up to the idea of a tube amp. "as long as it doesn't look hideous."

If the size is still not suitable, then the little milli-sized (5 liter) enclosure for either CHR70 (sealed) or Alpair 6 (vented) should be worth a look.

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/mMarS-1v0-map-231009.pdf

I've had experience with all the above designs, and if you can manage the floor space, I'd highly recommend the dual driver microtowers.

Other designs that I'm not sure if anyone has built yet:

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/MT-HT-Appendix-191209.pdf


Did you say the TV would be new? There is a wide range of fully articulating mounting brackets to accommodate flatscreen sets. Provided the walls are structurally sound, you could attach the bracket above the mantle, and tilt it down for correct viewing. Unless you have a lot of A/V components, a small stand should manage that.
 
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...Since WAF is important...

Affirmative!

you might be surprised at the reaction

Negative! Having presented the designs for executive review, bookshelf size has been selected as the way forward. miniOnkens or milliFonkens. Whichever gives the best bass response. The towers take up too much floor space (i.e. any), and the dual driver thing "looks odd". Happy-wife-happy-life. Now repeat.

Did you say the TV would be new? There is a wide range of fully articulating mounting brackets to accommodate flatscreen sets.

Yes - and we will certainly be in the market for one of these once I've finished the demolition! Something like: TV & Video: Home Theatre Furniture: Init 30" - 50" Tilting Flat-Panel TV Wall Mount (NT-TVM108) | Best Buy Canada Web Store - but hopefully not as expensive.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
miniOnkens or milliFonkens. Whichever gives the best bass response. The towers take up too much floor space (i.e. any)

Note that miniOnkens (primeSized), and mFonkens (milliSized) are quite different sizes.

The primeSize actually takes up more floor space than a set of castle-style microTowers. They really need to be on stands.The best bass is from the new Mar-Kel70, a primeSize for the EL70eN.

The milliSize was developed expressly for the purpose of creating a really small and versatile package for situations like yours (or i would guess from your WAF requirements). There are now 4 millSize boxes (and a 5th soon) for FE127eN, EL70eN, CHR-70, and Alpair 6. Best bass comes from EL70, but you might well find that room placement could (ie if on an actual bookshelf or anywhere near a wall), the CHR-70 (or unreleasd A7) sealed version might well be better suited to match room gain.

With your t-amp the 4 ohm impedance of the Mark Audio built drivers is better suited, putting level capabilities of the FE127eN & the EL70eN (or their stock counterparts) on par with each other. Further, the output filters are optimized for 4 ohms, and the MA drivers in general are happier with these amps than the FE127.

It is my intention to reconfigure the milliSize enclosures for wall mounting -- this will require a bit of retuning so that there is not a big bump at the bottom. My primary drive to do this is to enable some surrounds for my own room, but if you find this desirable for your own use i can push that higher in the queue and we can work together to get something that works.

dave
 
TV mount source

Yes - and we will certainly be in the market for one of these once I've finished the demolition! Something like: TV & Video: Home Theatre Furniture: Init 30" - 50" Tilting Flat-Panel TV Wall Mount (NT-TVM108) | Best Buy Canada Web Store - but hopefully not as expensive.

I purchased a mount from here:
Mounts and Stands - Buy Mounts and Stands Online from Only Best Rated - Your DivX Source

Good prices and product, Canadian reseller for Monoprice from the US, so you avoid brokerage charges.
bb
 
@bearberry - that, sir, is an excellent tip. Instant bookmark.

@planet10 - thanks Dave - much appreciated. Decision made RE: Drivers... rather than continuing to split hairs, I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair of CHR-70s. I freely admit that I chose these over the EL70s due to the gold colour. Natty.

First thought it to go with the sealed cab as you suggest (holes can always be added later).

A wall-version of the milliSize sounds like fun - but being a total amateur at this not sure if I can be of much assistance to you! What should I do first? What did you have in mind?

For instance, I am still mystified by the various graphs/models posted by others on the site amid much chin-scratching... I mean I love a good spreadsheet as much as the next guy, but just not sure how it'll help me (specifically) build better speakers.
 
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