my new bib related webpage

[just a guy]

I'm making a website to document a lot of my previous and future projects and stuff. The 3rd page I've completed is a write up of my conical pipe/horn / BIB - link below. Comments are welcome, and there's a couple of other interesting projects on the site as well so far (but not single driver). Please note that this website is very new, only a couple of days old in fact, so it's quite rough and needs work.

Most importantly though, I used an image from the BIB calculator spreadsheet and I need to know who to ask permission. I know GM formulated the equations but I have no idea who made the spreadsheet or the picture.

Conical Pipe/Horn (amateur audio)

[just a guy]

There's a lot more than 3 pages now so I had to move them around and now the old link in the previous post doesn't work anymore. I editted my sig to show the site home page link but if that doesn't work it's here - Home (amateur audio).

In addition to the BIB (conical pipe/horn) page I've added a Frugal Horn project page and a BOFU Half Chang project page that might be interesting to the single driver crowd. In the coming weeks there will also be a Mini Onken project page.

There's also a theory and a recommended software section now, if you are into that kind of thing. And lots of non single driver projects too.

Comments and opinions still welcome. Feel free to let me know about any mistakes.

[Scottmoose]

A few factural corrections WRT your page on the Frugel horns, if you don't mind?

The Buschorn Mk1 was the first box, and was actually quite well thought of to the best of my knowledge. However, the Mk2 Buschorn, with very different internals appeared quite soon after, and the original cabinet was largely forgotten in DIY circles. FYI, there is also a Mk3 Buschorn, which is basically a Mk2 with an additional downward-firing mid-bass driver. Never gained much exposure outside Germany; I'm not even sure if it was an 'official' B-horn or simply a variation created by an enthusiast. Not that it matters.

Ed Schilling's highly regarded commercial Horn was based upon the folding scheme of the Mk1 Buschorn, although it is somewhat larger, and has a different flare profile (i.e. the layout is similar, but all the dimensions are different).

The Frugel-horn was essentially created in response to a request for a compact DIY corner-horn design of roughly the same size as Ed's commercial Horn. Internally, it's closer to the B-horn Mk2 in layout, with a few elements of the Mk1. It is emphatically not an 'updated, refolded and rebranded' version of Ed's (excellent) Horn. It's kind of you to include my name in your paragraph on their background, but honesty compels me to point out that my involvement with the FH was in fact quite minimal -I stuck it through MathCAD, but that was pretty much as far as it went.

[just a guy]

I don't mind at all, I'll make the changes asap, probably within an hour or two.

FWIW, your name appears on more pages (the bib page and the half chang page) and both of them are big hits.

[rjbond3rd]

Nice site!

[just a guy]

The Frugel-Horn page has been editted. I also realized I was spelling Frugel-Horn wrong all this time...

[just a guy]

Originally Posted by rjbond3rd

Nice site!

Thanks. It's only a couple of weeks old so some pages are still pretty rough. I have lots more content coming.

This is my first website. It's (obviously) a google hosted site so it's free and super simple to put together and maintain. Now that I know how easy it is I think everyone should have one.

[Scottmoose]

Yep, nice site indeed.

[chrisb]

Well, at the risk of "shilling" (don't groan, Ed's made the same joke himself) for the Frugel-Horn design, and being quite familiar with all 3 designs - I own a pair of "Horns" myself, and have built numerous pairs of the FH & BH MKI & II, I'd like to make a few comments - in no particular order:


Aside from Ed & his dad, no one knows for sure what is going on inside his design, so as many of us have found over the years, opining on the similarities to the original BH MKI is an interesting intellectual exercise, but otherwise pointless.

As Scott noted above, the provenance of its origins aside, the Frugel-Horn is not in any way derived from the folding topology of "The Horn".
This was a cooperative project that evolved over a period of many months, and experimentation was encouraged. Where Scott became far more involved was the still expanding series of designs found under the heading Spawn of ... : some of these have already become commercially licensed.


If I read your webpage correctly, you constructed a pair of FH from 1/2" plywood? That's probably a good part of the source of some of the resonance issues you're finding.

AFAIK, the published graphs from the Stereophile review were made without the benefit of corner loading that "completes" the last section of the horn flare. This subject was indeed fodder for much of the "animated conversation" on a long since deleted thread at the old Decware forum.

Read Floyd Toole's recent book, wherein the efficacy or relevance of in-room loudspeaker measurements is discussed. This is a guy who knows a thing or 3 about loudspeakers and measurements thereof.

I think you'll find that the forward midrange is a characteristic of the FE126E - certainly a common trait shared by all of the FExx6 series compared to the shielded FExx7 series.

If you're not planning on completely abandoning them, when you next invest some time on the FH cabinets, might I suggest that you:
a) open up the large triangular void cavity behind the driver chamber, rather than experiment with different fill materials
b) try a simple supra-baffle - my first experiment was with a cut-out of 3 ply corrugated cardboard taped to the cabinet. I found it to help considerable fill in some of the lower midrange area between the baffle step loss frequency and the "horn lift"
c) add a layer of 1/4" ply to the side panels and front baffle, and perhaps 1/2" to the top

[just a guy]

Chris, we went through all this in the frugel-horn thread. About 20 pages worth. I tried everything you mentioned and so so much more. I don't want to go through all that again, so suffice it to say it's not panel resonances and it's not improper placement causing the massive twin midbass peaks - which are my main complaint. It's simply an undersized horn and no amount of tweaks, deflectors or careful room placement is going to completely fix it.

I have a lot of respect for everyone involved (including you of course) and their other published works so I hope we can just agree to disagree on the FH and let it go.