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would full range muddle up with drum and bass?
would full range muddle up with drum and bass?
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:18 AM   #1
PreSapian is offline PreSapian
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Default would full range muddle up with drum and bass?

i don't own a full range pair... yet. and i only listen to electronica music. mainly drum and bass with fast drum beats and complex layers of melodies. i'm wondering if an entry level full-range would be a conflicting choice for this type of music or not. because i have a size restriction no bigger than the biggest bookshelf, only a modest amount of budget, and keep seeing the phrase 'muddle up' when reading about the diy projects that fit my requirements. naturally i will be keeping the volume knot only at modest levels. Am I going to hear a happy ending if i choose to go with a small full-range for my music preference?
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Old 12th October 2009, 02:07 PM   #2
Piek is offline Piek  Europe
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I'd rather buy a used 3-way from the seventies.
Even with low volume most fullrangers won't sound good (as good as similar sized 2-Way for example) with this type of music.

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Old 12th October 2009, 02:33 PM   #3
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Well , maybe a 10" or 12" with a whizzer cone and some treble tilt on the EQ would do sufficiently the job . Magnets are big and heavy who cares about diameter?
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Old 12th October 2009, 02:55 PM   #4
pjanda1 is offline pjanda1  United States
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When I saw this thread, I was thinking of a long "it depends" response where I would write about how enclosure type is at least as important to consider as driver type. But, it sounds like you're restricted to bookshelves.

Then the question becomes efficiency. If you have some watts to throw at them, pick a smaller driver with a decent sized Xmax, like the Jordan, CSS or Alpair or Tang Band. You might talk to Planet10 about a Fonken style enclosure, or you could use a simple reflex aligment. If you need higher efficiency, you'll need to trade extension for it by using a larger driver in a sealed box. Depending on your room size, the room gain can make a sealed enclosure with a high-ish F3 sound pretty flat. The other option is to use a line level high pass filter with a higher tuned vented box (easier than it sounds, a single capacitor will do). Unless you are listening at very low levels, I'd advise against using a small, low x-max driver in a vented box for electronica.

And finally, do they need to sit on a shelf? How about a small footprint floorstander? There are some ML-TL's floating around that could work well. Or, use one of the little, high excursion drivers in a BIB! The foot print would be tiny, but they need some vertical space. Or, do you have anyplace you can hide a subwoofer? If you don't need much extension from your fullrangers, it opens even more possibilities.

I am awfully sure that with a little thought, and some help from the forum, you can find a fullrange solution.

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Old 12th October 2009, 06:12 PM   #5
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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would full range muddle up with drum and bass?
Originally Posted by pjanda1 View Post
You might talk to Planet10 about a Fonken style enclosure
Prototype for EL70eN is under construction.

community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
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Old 12th October 2009, 06:58 PM   #6
d to the g is offline d to the g  United States
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As a huge fan of electronic music: a small full ranger will not satisfy you. You will not hear the bass drops, slides, or have any extension. A very large pair of fullrangers could... depending. A two way (even something like tysen) would go a long way in giving you the low frequency extension you're going to need.
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Old 12th October 2009, 07:29 PM   #7
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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would full range muddle up with drum and bass?
fwiw i had Nirvana's Super10 in ~ 3 cubic foot reflex box - on Earthwork's mic demo disc, acoustic drums were very clear (partly due to riding on-axis response) but Earthwork's drum demo is unrealistic as only one drum/cymbal is hit at a time and spaced far apart instead of a groove or solo. More dense in time/complex material such as Dan Weiss's tintal drumset with electric guitar would probably fall apart quickly/ Going to hiphop and electronic bass - maybe some blh fullrange would do it (?) I've played with 15 and 18" Karlson couplers and do ok - >115dB ability at couch from one coupler on odaiko with ~1/8" p-p cone ,movement and 300 watts peak input. This of course was too loud for the average happenings in the track but the whack didn't sound "loud" - just quick & startling (and much less muddy than my k-horns) 10" woofer bookshelf systems will usually fall apart with heavy demands. IMO speakers which break up badly or compress will sound more irritating on than those which have less stain and modulation distortion. Even speakers with poor small signal LF extension like La Scala should sound pretty good on drums & bass. I've run Peavey FH1 with 511/paging drivers and tweeters for fake LS - FH1 has half-space LF rolloff of 12dB/octave below ~110Hz - this played pretty good rock and other stuff overall
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Old 12th October 2009, 08:02 PM   #8
richie00boy is offline richie00boy  United Kingdom
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would full range muddle up with drum and bass?
You might get enough bass using Jordan JX92 in a ported box, but a bookshelf is going to be pushing it. IMO the full range driver is not the problem, the cabinet size and tuning options is. Then again my definition of only modest levels may be completely different to yours, also are you going to be sat near them or in a big room or what?
www.readresearch.co.uk my website for UK diy audio people - designs, PCBs, modules and more.
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Old 12th October 2009, 09:16 PM   #9
AdamThorne is offline AdamThorne  United States
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I listen to a bunch of electronic music.

I have 6-inch fostex fe167e based speakers in the Metronome cabinet, and have had 3-inch Tang-Bands in the Needle cabinet.

The 3-inchers ran out of excursion quickly. The 167 setup could do fairly deep bass tunefully, but it seemed slow and lacked impact. A sub helped tremendously in both cases. You needn't get really crazy with a sub, an 8-inch woofer and <100 watts is still enough to be a big help, depending on the output levels you need. But part of the key is rolling off the LF info to the FR speaker. I got a Reckhorn F-1 to do that for me, but there are other ways.

I do like the FR for electronic music, though. For synthetic waveforms with extensive overtone structures - square waves and other crunchy sounds - they do a good job of keeping things in line and coherent, and can sound fast and powerful in that respect.
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Old 13th October 2009, 07:41 AM   #10
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Naaah! Beyond the sound of sinths , which is generally spread in the "mid" spectrum , and is reproduced fairly well by FR , the nearly infrasonic tail of bass and the shouty hi-hats often need to be played loud ,the first can be done by a sub , but the latter needs a specific driver ,id est a tweeter , and they easily blow ...
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