Hi folks,
Instead of rambling about how I went from multi-way to FR then multi-way's using FR's I'd rather just state for the record. I'm always returning to the FR's. More specifically the Brynn. This is also the speaker I'm most attached to re: build quality of the cab
With a few dB boost down low, and no silly volumes, it's a well balanced setup.
So, what do I build next? I don't have any drivers yet so I'm open to suggestions that are not based on the FE126/7 drivers, in fact, I'd prefer to build something with a larger driver that wont require the use of eq that the FE127 is getting right now.
In a round-a-bout way I've come to my own conclusions (from experimenting with CSS FR125's in MTM and Coral Flat 10ii with a woofer) that I'm happy to add a tweeter OR a woofer but not both as the single driver magic disappears proportionately to the number of drivers -go figure. I have no numbers or graphs or the like, so don't ask Purely listening, and lots of it.
So what are your suggestions? Favourite Chang's? A Curvy Chang would be cool and look nice. 6.5 or 8" driver? Any new Chang's on the way for me to be the guinea pig on?
Thanks for reading
Instead of rambling about how I went from multi-way to FR then multi-way's using FR's I'd rather just state for the record. I'm always returning to the FR's. More specifically the Brynn. This is also the speaker I'm most attached to re: build quality of the cab
With a few dB boost down low, and no silly volumes, it's a well balanced setup.So, what do I build next? I don't have any drivers yet so I'm open to suggestions that are not based on the FE126/7 drivers, in fact, I'd prefer to build something with a larger driver that wont require the use of eq that the FE127 is getting right now.
In a round-a-bout way I've come to my own conclusions (from experimenting with CSS FR125's in MTM and Coral Flat 10ii with a woofer) that I'm happy to add a tweeter OR a woofer but not both as the single driver magic disappears proportionately to the number of drivers -go figure. I have no numbers or graphs or the like, so don't ask
Purely listening, and lots of it.So what are your suggestions? Favourite Chang's? A Curvy Chang would be cool and look nice. 6.5 or 8" driver? Any new Chang's on the way for me to be the guinea pig on?
Thanks for reading
Thanks Stevie. There's so many options it's hard to whittle them down, harder than I thought it'd be.
I actually love the looks of Terry Cains designs. The Abby and the Single horn Ben. I wonder what the reasons are for the Chang's not incorporating the Supra baffle? Is there a public domain plan for the Ben? I'm thinking not but doesn't hurt to ask
I actually love the looks of Terry Cains designs. The Abby and the Single horn Ben. I wonder what the reasons are for the Chang's not incorporating the Supra baffle? Is there a public domain plan for the Ben? I'm thinking not but doesn't hurt to ask
Hi Scott,
Thought as much
Thanks for the explanation on the Supra baffles. TBH, I like them for purely cosmetic reasons!
I have Coral Flat 10ii's but really am not sure what to do with them as yet. This isn't due to a lack of options, but because they're too big for the room - I think. The original idea of placing them in a sealed with a vented bass driver has failed. The Corals did not appreciate the sealed cab, they clearly need room to breathe (for want of a technical term). Needless to say, they are on hold indefinitely.
Is there a Spawn that can house either a 6 or 8" Sigma driver? I'd like to hear one of those puppies, it'll help narrow things down a bit too.
Thought as much
Thanks for the explanation on the Supra baffles. TBH, I like them for purely cosmetic reasons!
I have Coral Flat 10ii's but really am not sure what to do with them as yet. This isn't due to a lack of options, but because they're too big for the room - I think. The original idea of placing them in a sealed with a vented bass driver has failed. The Corals did not appreciate the sealed cab, they clearly need room to breathe (for want of a technical term). Needless to say, they are on hold indefinitely.
Is there a Spawn that can house either a 6 or 8" Sigma driver? I'd like to hear one of those puppies, it'll help narrow things down a bit too.
Place my vote for a half chang. I can't imagine the need for extra output found in the full version (coming from a metalhead). Having not heard a curvy chang, I cannot comment on the other stated benefits over the half (imaging & tonal balance), but I can vouch for the endless listennability and emotion delivered from mine. Impact, output, and quality is all there in an arguably more reasonable package. I should mention that I use the lowly BOFU, plugged and basket treated only, with a Dayton ND20. I would expect quite a show with the Fostex option.
fwater, not a silly idea going for the 207e Chang. I've already built a 1/8th Chang Brynn, which I have a love/hate relationship with (assuming incorrectly that the 127e is 1/4 the size of a 207e )
I wouldn't mind looking at the Mark Audio drivers either :/ In all honesty, I'm torn between a smaller FR doing from 100 - 150 upwards with a helper woofer or a larger FR doing from 40 - 50Hz upwards and a helper tweeter!
ARGGHHH!
p.s - This is an ongoing dilemma... just ask Rabbitz who I believe has washed his hands of me
Come to think of it, Scott's probably twigged to this dilemma too and is soon to liberally apply some soap.
)I wouldn't mind looking at the Mark Audio drivers either :/ In all honesty, I'm torn between a smaller FR doing from 100 - 150 upwards with a helper woofer or a larger FR doing from 40 - 50Hz upwards and a helper tweeter!
ARGGHHH!
p.s - This is an ongoing dilemma... just ask Rabbitz who I believe has washed his hands of me
Come to think of it, Scott's probably twigged to this dilemma too and is soon to liberally apply some soap.
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The double-mouth version don't have extra output per se. What they do is couple to twice as much air, & provide a ~MTM radiation pattern. Imaging is largely a phantom contrived by the recording engineers, but within this context, they generally provide a much larger sense of scale, height and depth to the soundstage.
>>> I'm not always sold on their supposed benefits.
I removed mine (supra baffle) after several months of use. My BIB baffle is on the wide side of typical anyway... but the added 'benefit' was small and took up too much horizontal space in my room... so they had to go.
fwater...
>>> I use the lowly BOFU, plugged and basket treated only, with a Dayton ND20. I would expect quite a show with the Fostex option.
More and more i do not think it's lowly at all... also, did you listen to the b20 without the phase plug first or did you just plug it? I removed the dustcap last week and think it sounds pretty cool.
I would expect the 207e to put on a great show too!
Godzilla
I removed mine (supra baffle) after several months of use. My BIB baffle is on the wide side of typical anyway... but the added 'benefit' was small and took up too much horizontal space in my room... so they had to go.
fwater...
>>> I use the lowly BOFU, plugged and basket treated only, with a Dayton ND20. I would expect quite a show with the Fostex option.
More and more i do not think it's lowly at all... also, did you listen to the b20 without the phase plug first or did you just plug it? I removed the dustcap last week and think it sounds pretty cool.
I would expect the 207e to put on a great show too!
Godzilla
Scott, unsubmergible old mariner, -
<Imaging is largely a phantom contrived by the recording engineers>
Oh boy, you might have opened a can of worms here. Forcing people to face the fact that a sound engineer placed the musicians although they were not even in the same studio...heretic! Stone him! Only two bob per stone!
Heinz Schmitt (RIP, Heinz) once emailed a response to a music critic he didn´t want to publish openly...that critic had given a wonderful sermon about "crystal clear, pinpointed stereo soundstage" on a mono recording.
<Imaging is largely a phantom contrived by the recording engineers>
Oh boy, you might have opened a can of worms here. Forcing people to face the fact that a sound engineer placed the musicians although they were not even in the same studio...heretic! Stone him! Only two bob per stone!
Heinz Schmitt (RIP, Heinz) once emailed a response to a music critic he didn´t want to publish openly...that critic had given a wonderful sermon about "crystal clear, pinpointed stereo soundstage" on a mono recording.
ROTFLMAO! Yeah, I can buy that.
You'll probably get rich, given the number of people who'd like to heave something heavy & solid in my direction... Ah well, I shall look on the bright side; at least I'm not going to be burned. I shall have to change my strategy in future, like this bloke...
You'll probably get rich, given the number of people who'd like to heave something heavy & solid in my direction... Ah well, I shall look on the bright side; at least I'm not going to be burned.
I shall have to change my strategy in future, like this bloke...Attachments
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I listenned before I plugged it, and I too prefer the effect of the plug. I also liked the sound with nothing at all in the polepiece, and I would be hard pressed to describe a difference between that state and a sharpenned dowel, but there's really no replacement for the torpedo look. I also listenned before and after ductsealing the legs, epoxying the basket to magnet gap, and felting every reachable surface. I would say that ductsealing had a sort of impact, hard to describe, and certainly not too profound, while the other mods were indistinguishable before and after. That being said, I did not control barely a thing in between listens, and my music room is full of reflections & standing waves to mull the effects of small gains in quality. All in all, the mods to the back barely cost a thing, I percieved a small gain in "the total package", so worth the trouble fer sher.
Calling this driver lowly is tongue-in-cheek. I'm with you and Pass and anyone else singing the praises on value concerning this guy. Just so hard to pass up, and so easy to stop and listen to.
I didn't catch up with this forum early enough to know why you're so closely associted with the BiB. Were you an early advocate or a test mule?
Lazyfly
Why not a "Curvy Bruce" which I drew up with David D's help....using the 8-inch driver?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139749&highlight=curvy+bruce
Another idea..."Carfrae in a Box"...taking the Little Big Horn concept, and dropping the powered bass module, and building the side walls down to the floor. Nice tractrix horn giving very good bass response. You could use Fostex, Lowther, Coral in this....
...and I'm Oz....!
Cheers.
Andrew.
Why not a "Curvy Bruce" which I drew up with David D's help....using the 8-inch driver?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139749&highlight=curvy+bruce
Another idea..."Carfrae in a Box"...taking the Little Big Horn concept, and dropping the powered bass module, and building the side walls down to the floor. Nice tractrix horn giving very good bass response. You could use Fostex, Lowther, Coral in this....
...and I'm Oz....!
Cheers.
Andrew.
Hi Andrew,
I started playing with curves myself, for a CSS FR125 MTM - the curve aligns the 3 drivers to a single point at the approx listening position of a paltry 2.2 metres. See pic for progress.
I like the BVR's as they're designed. A little flex is probably possible but the classic shapes work well - the Brynn's I have here in Walnut looks spiffy! Now I'm after a larger presence with cleaner higher SPL's in FR.
The Carfrae's would just be too large for my (current) room, which is bloody tiny dammit. The Corals really do want a larger room. I've used one in a similar sized room in mono, which was great, two was a little overwhelming... A beautiful driver for future use though.
As I wrote earlier, I'm torn between a smaller FR and bass augmentation or a larger FR and top end augmentation. I made a mistake with the CSS MTM by throwing them in a 10L sealed with a 10" woofer in a vented cab. UniBox predicted a F3 of 95 Hz. This is NOT the case at all but not UniBox's fault either.
At a guess it's got very usable bass down in the 50's and am guessing it's because I didn't think about it all hard enough. The venting around the phase plug doesn't really allow for a sealed cabinet at all!
Curves inspired by a Steinway & Sons documentary.
Coffins inspired by the opportunity to fail
I started playing with curves myself, for a CSS FR125 MTM - the curve aligns the 3 drivers to a single point at the approx listening position of a paltry 2.2 metres. See pic for progress.
I like the BVR's as they're designed. A little flex is probably possible but the classic shapes work well - the Brynn's I have here in Walnut looks spiffy! Now I'm after a larger presence with cleaner higher SPL's in FR.
The Carfrae's would just be too large for my (current) room, which is bloody tiny dammit. The Corals really do want a larger room. I've used one in a similar sized room in mono, which was great, two was a little overwhelming
... A beautiful driver for future use though.As I wrote earlier, I'm torn between a smaller FR and bass augmentation or a larger FR and top end augmentation. I made a mistake with the CSS MTM by throwing them in a 10L sealed with a 10" woofer in a vented cab. UniBox predicted a F3 of 95 Hz. This is NOT the case at all but not UniBox's fault either.
At a guess it's got very usable bass down in the 50's and am guessing it's because I didn't think about it all hard enough. The venting around the phase plug doesn't really allow for a sealed cabinet at all!
Curves inspired by a Steinway & Sons documentary.
Coffins inspired by the opportunity to fail
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Nice cabinets indeed.
Fo the bigger/fuller sound, you could consider the Medallion II, or one of the Frugal/Spawn's...the big Shachiko is my pic. You can't beat BIG!
The C-Horn is another possibility. 1400mm tall, 3m horn path, huge bass, acrylic sides or MDF, mix of internal structures to choose from...eg MDF or ply. Certainly one of the most exotic horn speakers in the world...
A friend is building one at the moment in all 25mm ply slices, with 25mm German-made acrylic sides panels....should look wicked. Driver choice - Fostex 206E. I've had Lowther DX3's plus the Visaton B200 in mine.
Andrew.
Fo the bigger/fuller sound, you could consider the Medallion II, or one of the Frugal/Spawn's...the big Shachiko is my pic. You can't beat BIG!
The C-Horn is another possibility. 1400mm tall, 3m horn path, huge bass, acrylic sides or MDF, mix of internal structures to choose from...eg MDF or ply. Certainly one of the most exotic horn speakers in the world...
A friend is building one at the moment in all 25mm ply slices, with 25mm German-made acrylic sides panels....should look wicked. Driver choice - Fostex 206E. I've had Lowther DX3's plus the Visaton B200 in mine.
Andrew.
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Ahhh yes. I've seen these cabinets (photo's). Very elegant execution however I wonder what happens with the acrylic sides fixed to the presumably 2-packed paint work - does it 'stick'?
I'd like to do something along these lines when I get more familiar with the software driving the CNC at work but what happens with all the waste?
Appreciate the suggestions. Just confirms there's a zillion options and only so much time wait, I should be grateful for that
I'd like to do something along these lines when I get more familiar with the software driving the CNC at work but what happens with all the waste?
Appreciate the suggestions. Just confirms there's a zillion options and only so much time
wait, I should be grateful for that On sticking, yes it does...so I am working on a couple of design enhancements. The first is to to use 5-cent sized 0.5mm clear plastic film, which is placed over the holes where the screws are used. This has proved successful.
For the ply internal version - there is no issue...as the wood doesn't 'shine' and appear to stick to the perspex.
The other option is simply to use MDF or Ply side panels. An all painted MDF version would looks smart, as would an all-ply version, using, say, Kauri or Hoop Pine on on the outsides.
The units weigh appox 90Kgs each...so there's plenty of bulk to ensure a good audio response.
I can scale the design back to 1200mm tall and 270mm wide to house the 6.5 inch driver.
Plenty of ideas to play with....
Andrew
For the ply internal version - there is no issue...as the wood doesn't 'shine' and appear to stick to the perspex.
The other option is simply to use MDF or Ply side panels. An all painted MDF version would looks smart, as would an all-ply version, using, say, Kauri or Hoop Pine on on the outsides.
The units weigh appox 90Kgs each...so there's plenty of bulk to ensure a good audio response.
I can scale the design back to 1200mm tall and 270mm wide to house the 6.5 inch driver.
Plenty of ideas to play with....
Andrew
Aengus
Thanks for the question....but the drawings are not in the public domain. My 'friend' is also a 'client.' I'm doing the gluing, he's finishing off. He's opted for Fostex 206E drivers.
I do sell the C-Horn slices in a flat pack kit, including dowels etc. Option to use acrylic sides or MDF.....
Andrew
Thanks for the question....but the drawings are not in the public domain. My 'friend' is also a 'client.' I'm doing the gluing, he's finishing off. He's opted for Fostex 206E drivers.
I do sell the C-Horn slices in a flat pack kit, including dowels etc. Option to use acrylic sides or MDF.....
Andrew
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