I'm about to build a Frugelhorn, and I'm trying to decide what kind of (hopefully) cheap amplifier to drive it from. I already have an S5 K-12G amplifier that I'm very happy with, but I understand that a SET amp or something like the T-Amp might be more sensitive and a better match for the Frugelhorn. Before I spend 70 bucks on upgrade capacitors for the K-12G, I wanted to make sure this was an "appropriate" amp to match with the Frugelhorns.
Would a SET tube amp in the same price range ($200) be more sensitive and revealing than the Push/Pull I have? I don't care if that price limits me to DIY amp that can't do more than 2 wpc. The K-12G is only 8 wpc and it can easily fill the room even when hooked up to a pair of stupidly inefficient Advent /3 speakers at like 85 db/w.
Would a SET tube amp in the same price range ($200) be more sensitive and revealing than the Push/Pull I have? I don't care if that price limits me to DIY amp that can't do more than 2 wpc. The K-12G is only 8 wpc and it can easily fill the room even when hooked up to a pair of stupidly inefficient Advent /3 speakers at like 85 db/w.
Well, I've built a few pairs of Frugelhorns and other FE126 & FE108E Sigma based designs (BLH and otherwise), and my favorite amp to date from a from a wide range of tubed and SS is the (now retired) Bottlehead Paramour 2A3 SET.
I'd certainly be most inclined to recommend something along those lines, but good luck finding parts or a kit for the above budget - decent iron for power supply and O/P alone could cost at least that much . However, a new product that is currently getting raves, and that would certainly be worth looking into is:
http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&products_id=258
see thread here:
http://www.audiophiletalk.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1248108891
no doubt other discussions on this little gem to be found elsewhere
2.5W might not seem like much, but as owners of many flea-watt triode amps will attest, there's more to it than that
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I have the Audio Nirvana full range drivers in folded voight pipes - some horn loading is involved. For a long time, I was running them with a T-amp and the sound was good. Recently though, I connected it to a 2.5W/ch single-ended tube amp and the difference in sound is like night and day. In comparison, the t-amp sounds harsh, lacks bass and is in general uninteresting - another way of saying that is not a good match for these speakers.
Your K-12G would appear to be a good match and I would advise against investing in a t-amp. One of the zens or the firstwatt amps would be a good choice also.
Your K-12G would appear to be a good match and I would advise against investing in a t-amp. One of the zens or the firstwatt amps would be a good choice also.
chrisb,
I have that 2.5W gem. Got it as a birthday gift from my dad. It is astounding what that little thing can do. I've had it for a week and it has completely transformed my previously very good system into phenomenal (no modesty here).
I've been meaning to report on it in detail. I probably will after I've listened to it more. But I can outright recommend it to anyone and everyone. This is serious stuff for peanuts. Not as low as a t-amp but then it is miles ahead of the t-amp in terms of sound quality.
I have that 2.5W gem. Got it as a birthday gift from my dad. It is astounding what that little thing can do. I've had it for a week and it has completely transformed my previously very good system into phenomenal (no modesty here).
I've been meaning to report on it in detail. I probably will after I've listened to it more. But I can outright recommend it to anyone and everyone. This is serious stuff for peanuts. Not as low as a t-amp but then it is miles ahead of the t-amp in terms of sound quality.
I guess I'll take the T-Amp out of consideration. I really like the looks of that Miniwatt amp. It comes prebuilt and costs less than Zen's DIY offering!
I guess what I really want to know, is there something inherently superior about a fleawatt single ended amp compared to a push/pull in the same price range, when hooked up to a nice pair of back loaded horns? Or is that too generic of a question to answer? I'd rather use the K12g I already have since I don't have any other use for it, but I don't want to throw money at it if it'll never equal what I could get out of a SET.
I guess what I really want to know, is there something inherently superior about a fleawatt single ended amp compared to a push/pull in the same price range, when hooked up to a nice pair of back loaded horns? Or is that too generic of a question to answer? I'd rather use the K12g I already have since I don't have any other use for it, but I don't want to throw money at it if it'll never equal what I could get out of a SET.
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I assume you are asking because you have an urge to get something new, not that the K-12G is bad. Well, that mini system - I followed the link - looks really nice. Why not go and buy one, what's the worse that can happen - you don't like it and offer it as a gift to your Uncle (or it you email me and I'll take it 
).
).Yeah... that Miniwatt looks really tempting. The K12g was only about $200 shipped, looks like the Miniwatt comes in at around $250 shipped. I was going to put 70 bucks in auricaps into the K12g plus the cost of building a nice enclosure, I could put that money into a Miniwatt instead. I do have an old Zenith solid state console stereo in the living room I could put the K12g in. The builtin speakers have horns that sound pretty good with it, although you have to be standing (sitting actually) in exactly the right position or it sounds like a PA system.
I guess I should wait until I finish the Frugelhorns and take it from there. Unfortunately Madisound is back ordered on Fostex FE126E's until the end of the month.
I guess I should wait until I finish the Frugelhorns and take it from there. Unfortunately Madisound is back ordered on Fostex FE126E's until the end of the month.
This guy is selling the FE126E:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1918974#post1918974
I wouldn't dump the K-12 yet.... only heard good things about it. The miniwatt is a definite yes though. Can't go wrong there.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1918974#post1918974
I wouldn't dump the K-12 yet.... only heard good things about it. The miniwatt is a definite yes though. Can't go wrong there.
you thought this would be that easy?
one of the highly unpredictable factors you run into with audio gear is that of synergy - no less so even in the case of these "simple" & low power systems
as others have already noted, you won't know what works for you until you try both
I assume you are asking because you have an urge to get something new, not that the K-12G is bad. Well, that mini system - I followed the link - looks really nice. Why not go and buy one, what's the worse that can happen - you don't like it and offer it as a gift to your Uncle (or it you email me and I'll take it
BTW, the Fostex drivers that are noted in the link referenced by ra7 are FE127EN - definitely a great driver, but not right for the Frugelhorn
Power delivered to the speaker is I^2 x R... if R is halved, power is halved.
It will half the power at 4 ohms. Also, it is not a good idea to driver 4 ohm speakers using an amp rated for 8 ohms. It might end up blowing smoke.
I thought you double the power when you go 4 ohm, but you seriously increase the strain on the power supply, far more than just double. I think it's different for tube amps, though. I've seen older tube amps have different connectors for 4 and 8 ohm speakers because they go to different taps on the output transformers.
Anyways, thanks everyone for the suggestions. I had read somewhere that SET tube amps were faster and more transparent than push/pull ones, and therefore would be a more natural match with a folded horn speaker. But if there's nothing intrinsically superior about SET, I'll resist my urge to buy new toys and just work on upgrading the K12g.
Anyways, thanks everyone for the suggestions. I had read somewhere that SET tube amps were faster and more transparent than push/pull ones, and therefore would be a more natural match with a folded horn speaker. But if there's nothing intrinsically superior about SET, I'll resist my urge to buy new toys and just work on upgrading the K12g.
no,
when you halve the load resistance/impedance the current goes up.
Due to losses in the PSU and the amplifier the current will not increase by 100%. usually it will increase by between 70% and 95% depending on how the PSU+ Amplifier were constructed/designed.
P=I*I*R
half R and double I and theoretically you get double power.
And no again,
halving the load from 1M to 500K will not make a power amp fail unless the designer had intended that the normal load impedance was well above 1M
Similarly halving the load impedance from 8ohm to 4ohm will not make a power amplifier fail, particularly if the seller had intended staying in business selling 8ohm compatible amplifiers.
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so would it work with no issues?
i was looking for a new amplifier to pair the alpair bvr i'll be building when time permits... the alpair10 is a 4ohm 90db driver
i was thinking of both the dyens Ampino, said to be 30w of somewhat Pass-like sounds. (it would be great to have a taste of the sound for i'll be diyng one of his great project we i'll have the knowledge to do it)
or the miniwatt, i know the miniwatt at 2.5w will be too low for the alpair to sound its best, but then i can save it for a more efficent project, not having heard any good valve amplifier in my short audio-experience, it would be also great to have a good one for that price. but i fear to burn it out with the load from the alpairs
i was looking for a new amplifier to pair the alpair bvr i'll be building when time permits... the alpair10 is a 4ohm 90db driver
i was thinking of both the dyens Ampino, said to be 30w of somewhat Pass-like sounds. (it would be great to have a taste of the sound for i'll be diyng one of his great project we i'll have the knowledge to do it)
or the miniwatt, i know the miniwatt at 2.5w will be too low for the alpair to sound its best, but then i can save it for a more efficent project, not having heard any good valve amplifier in my short audio-experience, it would be also great to have a good one for that price. but i fear to burn it out with the load from the alpairs
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