First off, I have a Buffalo DAC SE or BAL to 24V Aikido SE or BAL (I have two boards) to two F4's (however we need them used).
The Audio Nirvana Cast Super 12 is the driver I was planning in using in a TL for some time. I was thinking that I could afford to buy them now and put them in a TL and run them balanced. I could then, when cash permits, add a couple subs and make the AN12" OB. If I was unsatisfid with the highs, I could later add a nice tweeter and cap and maybe remove the whizzer from the AN12". This all seemed like a nice little plan until I saw these:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148401&highlight=el70.
Now it looks as if have another choice...
I am considering selling an Aikido to raise some cash and commit to SE if needed to do what it takes. I am wondering what to do. I see two final system possibilities...
SYS.1) A pair of OB AN12" with a pair of Goldwood 18" subs, Active Xover on the subs alone at around 50-70Hz in a TL tuned to 25Hz or likely OB. One F4 for the AN12 and one F4 for bass duties (bridged or stereo)? Price is about $160Canadian for the subs to my door and about $300Can for the AN12 shipped. Crossover suggestions?
PROS:
-I can buy the AN12 now and have a system with bass pronto.
CONS:
-The highs are limited
-it will likely be cheaper to buy the subs now rather that build an expensive TL enclosure.
SYS.2) Either two or four EL70 per OB to raise sensitivity and a pair of Goldwood 18" OB. I would like to crossover the set-up the same low crossover frequency and use the EL70 full range. They should roll off nicely into the sub, no? I like the idea of freeing the litte guys from heavy duties, but I don't really want any caps in there. Unless someone can come up with a cheap and easy active that will NOT destroy the image to Xover them at 200Hz, I think they go full range. Price is the same for the subs and I am guessing $200Can(2 per OB)or $370Can(4 per OB)
PROS:
-Likely much better highs an it looks like a very flat responsedown to 100Hz with extension into the 22KHz region.
-No beeming. Probably very good bass in a TL or BIB for a small driver. Likely, four drivers per tower in a dipole TL might sound remarkable on it's own.
CONS:
-Much less bass extension and slam, dynmics, unless 4 drivers are used and then they get to be expensive and I could justify tweeters for the AN12.
-pretty much needs sub to do "effortless bass" at 30Hz
So it comes down to this...
Would two/four EL70's and a Goldwood 18" per OB with no filter on the full range and a 70Hz low pass for the subs sound as good as the AN12 in the same OB/sub setu-up?
The Audio Nirvana Cast Super 12 is the driver I was planning in using in a TL for some time. I was thinking that I could afford to buy them now and put them in a TL and run them balanced. I could then, when cash permits, add a couple subs and make the AN12" OB. If I was unsatisfid with the highs, I could later add a nice tweeter and cap and maybe remove the whizzer from the AN12". This all seemed like a nice little plan until I saw these:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148401&highlight=el70.
Now it looks as if have another choice...
I am considering selling an Aikido to raise some cash and commit to SE if needed to do what it takes. I am wondering what to do. I see two final system possibilities...
SYS.1) A pair of OB AN12" with a pair of Goldwood 18" subs, Active Xover on the subs alone at around 50-70Hz in a TL tuned to 25Hz or likely OB. One F4 for the AN12 and one F4 for bass duties (bridged or stereo)? Price is about $160Canadian for the subs to my door and about $300Can for the AN12 shipped. Crossover suggestions?
PROS:
-I can buy the AN12 now and have a system with bass pronto.
CONS:
-The highs are limited
-it will likely be cheaper to buy the subs now rather that build an expensive TL enclosure.
SYS.2) Either two or four EL70 per OB to raise sensitivity and a pair of Goldwood 18" OB. I would like to crossover the set-up the same low crossover frequency and use the EL70 full range. They should roll off nicely into the sub, no? I like the idea of freeing the litte guys from heavy duties, but I don't really want any caps in there. Unless someone can come up with a cheap and easy active that will NOT destroy the image to Xover them at 200Hz, I think they go full range. Price is the same for the subs and I am guessing $200Can(2 per OB)or $370Can(4 per OB)
PROS:
-Likely much better highs an it looks like a very flat responsedown to 100Hz with extension into the 22KHz region.
-No beeming. Probably very good bass in a TL or BIB for a small driver. Likely, four drivers per tower in a dipole TL might sound remarkable on it's own.
CONS:
-Much less bass extension and slam, dynmics, unless 4 drivers are used and then they get to be expensive and I could justify tweeters for the AN12.
-pretty much needs sub to do "effortless bass" at 30Hz
So it comes down to this...
Would two/four EL70's and a Goldwood 18" per OB with no filter on the full range and a 70Hz low pass for the subs sound as good as the AN12 in the same OB/sub setu-up?
Last edited:
A single cap in front of the amp that is driving the EL70 or if you are willing to go inside the amp, just replace an existing coupling cap with an appropriately smaller one.
A lot better highs & midrange would be my call...
dave
IMO, the 12" full range driver seems out of place if you are planning on adding a sub later. In both options I have to ask why would you use the 12" AN driver?
I think an OB with a smaller diameter full range driver and a larger diameter woofer, or maybe two woofers, makes a lot of sense and can be easily integrated well. Simple to build with great dynamics. But you need to do some detailed design work (think more real math and less abstract speculating) with the drivers you plan to use to realize the full potential. If you get it right, it will be outstanding.
This is what I was thinking. To balance nicely with the Goldwood 18" in OB should I try two or four EL70 per channel? Also, on the Firstwatt F4 what value cap and where?
If you are biamping, you don't much have to worry about relative sensitivity. As Martin points out, some modeling goes a long way to getting a real idea of what should work. The cap for the HP should probably go just after R1 and use the 47K5 resistor as the R part of the RC circuit.
I've heard 2 EL70s front firing with no real indication of objectionable combing, i'd worry about 4 screwing up the top end.
dave
...and just to add a extra point, re a TL with the AN12CF, you're going to need a very large box by contemporary standards. Just how big will depend on your design goals, what Vp calculation you use, & the damping material employed, but assuming you want something half-decent, we're talking anything from about 11ft^3 to 16+ ft^3
Size is the least of my worries... I am building the room around these and can make the box as big as needed. I wonder what a AN12" in a BIB with a tweeter from 10K and up, whizzer removed? I can make a 15'X20' room with cuve walls, huge bass horns in the foor, etc. I can make BIB for the AN12" and then I could turn the box into a sub later with a 12" sub or I could just commit to the Goldwood 18" and put the 12" in an OB. The same can be said for the EL70. I could use F5 channels to give the extra gain needed by the EL70's and F4's for the sub.
I had onther idea of using 8 cheap full rangers in an open baffle TL and a high pass at 150hz 1st order and a 18" in a TL.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150829
Fair enough. A BIB would require a Vp of about 72.6ft^3, using the factory spec.
TBH, if you're able to build a complete new room from scratch, I'd be looking at some higher-end drivers. Hell, my take would probably be to go built-in; huge IB chambers with multiple 15in woofers (my favourite bass-unit size) & wide-band compression drivers + horns.
TBH, if you're able to build a complete new room from scratch, I'd be looking at some higher-end drivers. Hell, my take would probably be to go built-in; huge IB chambers with multiple 15in woofers (my favourite bass-unit size) & wide-band compression drivers + horns.
If you can find such drivers for $400US and run on a couple of Firstwatt amps, I am all ears. What comprssion driver for a horn would you have in mind and it what horn? I can always buy the bass drivers in Thailand after I arrive.
Last edited:
This might be of interest: http://www.cowanaudio.com/index.html
Go to the section about Unity and take a look at his room - some good ideas there.
>>> IMO, the 12" full range driver seems out of place if you are planning on adding a sub later. In both options I have to ask why would you use the 12" AN driver?
I was thinking up a system using the Eminence 12" wide range driver on OB but you are causing me to re think my desire... i may do it regardless!
>>> This might be of interest: http://www.cowanaudio.com/index.html
That was enjoyable to read and see how he finally finished his system... totally built into the walls pretty much out of site. It must sound amazing!
Godzilla
I was thinking up a system using the Eminence 12" wide range driver on OB but you are causing me to re think my desire... i may do it regardless!
>>> This might be of interest: http://www.cowanaudio.com/index.html
That was enjoyable to read and see how he finally finished his system... totally built into the walls pretty much out of site. It must sound amazing!
Godzilla
They won't start beaming until around 8khz. And after that it will be mild to say the least due to the shallow cone profile.
This is a very well designed driver. I've been playing with them for a while to.
Mark
I am building a house for $15000 including the land. I would hate to spend 10% of the value of the house in drivers. I am leaning toward a single EL70 in a front Tractix horn. I am quite skilled with wood and laquer, 25 years experience, so I should be able to whip up some gorgeous teak or bamboo horns. I am starting to like this idea enough I may start producing horns for anyone who needs one.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.