Tang Bang W8-1772 Impressions.

[MJK]

Originally Posted by InclinedPlane

I still have the official plot for the Lowther EX2 and it is 111db at 9khz and 90db at 300 hz. $1000 USD per pair for +/- 21db? Oh my, what a deal. And no, I didn't buy into the 'well put it into a horn like it was designed for and it will flatten' **. So a horn will give me 20db even after the transition to 4pi space? Nah. I thought the plot at first was a mistake. Not only that, but the drivers seem to cause severe hearing irritation above 80db. I realized I had bought into the hype (newest and best from a global leader!) instead of doing my homework. Oh well.

Yes I know opinions aren't rare and precious here, but I tend to agree with your comments. I think Lowther and Fostex have done it wrong since day one. I have previously argued that a fullrange speaker must be, and CAN be balanced. They CAN do everything well and they can be affordable doing it. I like high sensitivity and lightning-quickness as much as anyone, but not at the expense of other critical design considerations.

I know we have had this discussion before, but I have not experienced any of your dissatisfaction with my Lowther drivers. I have seven different pairs (PM6C, PM2C, PM6A, PM2A, DX2, DX3, and DX4) and consider them some of the finest drivers I have had the pleasure of owning or hearing. The key is to use the things Lowther does well in your enclosure design and compromise a little on the things that are not the strength of the drivers. It is easy to put a Lowther in a poorly designed enclosure and get really terrible unbalanced sound. But if you do the enclosure system correctly, the Lowther drivers really shine. They are worth every penny and I have never regretted buying any of the pairs over the years I spent accumulating my collection.

Probably the best implementation of the Lowther driver I have had is in an OB paired with the Eminence Alpha 15A woofers. Amazing bass from the Alpha 15As and the Lowther driver doing everything above 200 Hz, really a dynamic lifelike performance. For my music in my system and room the Lowther OB system was the best speaker I have heard, period. I have a redesign Lowther OB system I would like to build this spring that will be more compact and I believe equal the performance of my original huge OB speaker.

I also believe I have the beginnings of a good BLH design for the Lowther drivers. This is still in the design phase but I see some real promise for a very efficient system that does not require any BSC.

In my opinion, the biggest problem people have with Lowther or Fostex drivers is the speaker system design, it is easy to make them sound bad. When they sound right, it becomes clear what the fuss is about.

[InclinedPlane]

I haven't had the money to try many, rjbond. But every untreated paper cone has been a disaster for me. I liked the F200A except for the metal dome. If they weren't so pricey I'd cut it off and add a phase plug with a high end tweet. In fact I just bought the used F120A pair that's on Audiogon (the ones with the one dented dome) because I want to tinker.

I'd like to hear the Fertin drivers with the rubber surrounds and the surroundless model.
I don't want to hear the PHYHP drivers (see above)
I'm suspicious of Feastrex, but they are a fascinating piece of engineering. However I think they'd go the way of the other untreated cones on my crazy planet.
AER/FRS tried them, no good.
Visaton B200 same deal no good
Vintage untreated paper no good
FE166E no good
Sigmas haven't bought them and won't
Jordan like to try it
MarkAudio like to try it
TB new FRs - don't think I want it.
SEAS nah
Fost FF85k with Enable - I want some!
Davis 20TK8 - not a fullrange driver but I Eq/d the highs for the heck of it and it is one fine sounding driver! Recommended.
Loth-X I'd like to try them.

TB has a 4" driver I want to try for fullrange use the W4 1720. The plot suggests that the highs would be nice maybe 15-30 off axis and it has a bully motor!

blah blah I'm rambling. I think about speakers for hours every day. I believe it is mental illness.

[InclinedPlane]

Maybe our hearing is just different, MJ. After all, we are different ages and not clones. The Alphas sound slow and blurry to me and the Lowthers are harsh and irritating. But the opposite is true for you.
I think if you've found something that thrills you then you = win. Same for me. But if you tell me you did it with Bose or Theatre Research, then I'm gonna really come down on you hard! haha.

[rjbond3rd]

Originally Posted by MJK

I also believe I have the beginnings of a good BLH design for the Lowther drivers. This is still in the design phase but I see some real promise for a very efficient system that does not require any BSC.

Wow, that will be incredible, Martin. A lot of people don't know what they are missing in terms of properly done Lowthers. Bob Brines is doing them well. The Lowther field coil at RMAF was also well done.

Originally Posted by InclinedPlane

I think about speakers for hours every day. I believe it is mental illness.

Amen to that. How about compression drivers and horns? No paper there. I hastily dismissed them after hearing bad PA systems, but Serenechaos brought over a ~36" Azura front-loaded horn and put in on the Betsy's, and wow, beautiful. He called it "mechanical EQ."

[freddi]

hi krum - -many thanks for the plan - that should be worked out well. Within its rated xmax, might I be bothered by modulation distortion on 1772 in MLTL or BLH? (I could run one in BK20 to get a rough idea)

[InclinedPlane]

I have an open mind for compression drivers. I'd like to try them. The JBL ones must be good, but they're over $1100 a pair!

[Defo]

Originally Posted by InclinedPlane

I have an open mind for compression drivers. I'd like to try them. The JBL ones must be good, but they're over $1100 a pair!

Most of them have titanium diaphragms which is harsh and unpleasant... Try some with a non metal diaphragm like mylar, polymide etc.

[cygnus x1]

Has anyone compared the W8-1808 to the W8-1772. I know they have different Qs, so different boxes, but looking for overall impressions?

[davethomp]

Thanks cygnus x1 for asking that question! I'm building a pair of Frugal Horns' Sachiko and was going to use Decware DFR8 rather than the Fostex Fe206e, but have been avidly following this discussion re TB 1772 to see what recommendations re cabinets would come out of the discussion...just in-case a better option may be suggested. I know that, DFR's are equivalent to FE206e, and TB's W8-1772 to Fe207...but what about the W8-1808? What would these be equivalent to? I can't understand the references to the maths! So am silently waiting for cabinet styles to be mooted.
I've got one Single Driver build left in me, do I go the Lowther road? or throw caution to the wind and sneak a pair od Seas Exotics into the house? Gosh, but then I'd have a bigger problem! What would I put the Exotics into? I can't work out what to put Tb's or Decwares' or Fostexs into!!!!
Great Discussion guys. Thanks
Rgds: Dave

[Godzilla]

>>> or throw caution to the wind and sneak a pair od Seas Exotics into the house?

LOL... i've stopped sneaking a while ago. I'd love to hear those Seas Exotics actually bc they spec to work in cabs like the TB W8-1808 which works in cabinets not needing as much bass support. Their efficiency is in the low 90's rather than mid to high 90's allowing them to sound more balanced in something other than a back horn of sorts.

Godzilla