thank you for the advise Chris.
Nice to hear how you inherited your love for music from your mom.
Congratulation with her 80th birthday. You're a happy man giving such
a present.
So CHR in parallel should give me just under 4 ohms which would be in
favor of the t-amp; delivering 25Watts at 4 ohms.
El70 I'd have to wire in series, which gives me 8 ohms.
Is 13 Watts not a bit low in that case? Of course there is no Bsc and there's two drivers per side.
that brings me to Cogitech's remark
What would be the right amp?
Leo
Nice to hear how you inherited your love for music from your mom.
Congratulation with her 80th birthday. You're a happy man giving such
a present.
So CHR in parallel should give me just under 4 ohms which would be in
favor of the t-amp; delivering 25Watts at 4 ohms.
El70 I'd have to wire in series, which gives me 8 ohms.
Is 13 Watts not a bit low in that case? Of course there is no Bsc and there's two drivers per side.
that brings me to Cogitech's remark
What would be the right amp?
Leo
Hi Leo,
I have run my EL70 microTowers with three amps; A modern Yamaha 2ch SS, a Lepai 2020A+, and a Shuguang I-25 tube amp.
The tube amp is by far the best at driving my speakers. So much so the I started a thread here recently to discuss full range amplification.
Granted, the Yamaha is not an example of high end SS, and the Lepai is probably the worst chip amp example. I actually find the Lepai unbearable at anything past 11 o'clock on the volume dial, and even at lower volumes it completely lacks imaging and realism (even compared to the Yamaha). This certainly has a lot to do with my chip amp's 2 ampere power supply.
Bob Brines and many others have reported great to excellent results with better chip amps but something tells me those systems just don't have the warmth and character of tubes. The rich, fluid bass that the I-25 brought to my system is just not there with the Yamaha or Lepai.
A really good SS amp (FirstWatt, Pass Labs, etc.) would certainly satisfy too, I am sure, so it comes down to personal choice.
For me, the $400 I spent on the Shuguang I-25 (Psvane TS-66) was the best audio purchase I have ever made and the synergy with my microTowers put my jaw on the floor.
The Lepai sounds like I am listening to a stereo system.
The Yamaha sounds like the performers are in my living room.
The Shuguang sounds like I am teleported to the room/venue with the performers.
I have run my EL70 microTowers with three amps; A modern Yamaha 2ch SS, a Lepai 2020A+, and a Shuguang I-25 tube amp.
The tube amp is by far the best at driving my speakers. So much so the I started a thread here recently to discuss full range amplification.
Granted, the Yamaha is not an example of high end SS, and the Lepai is probably the worst chip amp example. I actually find the Lepai unbearable at anything past 11 o'clock on the volume dial, and even at lower volumes it completely lacks imaging and realism (even compared to the Yamaha). This certainly has a lot to do with my chip amp's 2 ampere power supply.
Bob Brines and many others have reported great to excellent results with better chip amps but something tells me those systems just don't have the warmth and character of tubes. The rich, fluid bass that the I-25 brought to my system is just not there with the Yamaha or Lepai.
A really good SS amp (FirstWatt, Pass Labs, etc.) would certainly satisfy too, I am sure, so it comes down to personal choice.
For me, the $400 I spent on the Shuguang I-25 (Psvane TS-66) was the best audio purchase I have ever made and the synergy with my microTowers put my jaw on the floor.
The Lepai sounds like I am listening to a stereo system.
The Yamaha sounds like the performers are in my living room.
The Shuguang sounds like I am teleported to the room/venue with the performers.
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Cogitech,
Maybe this is a little off-topic but just to follow up on your observations of how different amps make the same speakers sound different. I had an *old* Sony model XM2020 - 20 watt/ch car amp lying around (I stripped it from my car when the car got totaled 18 years ago). I hooked it up to a laptop power brick (19 V at 4.6 amps - way more than 12 V that a car amp typically sees). I took a chance as it could have blown up if the electrolytic caps aren't rated high enough. I hooked that to my speakers which were typically driven by a a Yamaha SS amp (45 watt/ch) - about same age as the car amp. It sounded completely different! For the better. Granted, the 19V supply probably made it effectively a 40 watt amp. I am wondering if the car amp is a class A device (it runs very hot all the time even with no music signal - if that says anything), or it maybe that the amp is designed to drive 4 ohm loads? There was more authority in the bass, the highs sizzled more, it just sounded *effortless* and more dynamic. A happy accidental discovery.
Anyway, I am going to be listening to this little car amp a lot more. Has anyone else had a happy discovery with their cheap car amp vs home amp?
Maybe this is a little off-topic but just to follow up on your observations of how different amps make the same speakers sound different. I had an *old* Sony model XM2020 - 20 watt/ch car amp lying around (I stripped it from my car when the car got totaled 18 years ago). I hooked it up to a laptop power brick (19 V at 4.6 amps - way more than 12 V that a car amp typically sees). I took a chance as it could have blown up if the electrolytic caps aren't rated high enough. I hooked that to my speakers which were typically driven by a a Yamaha SS amp (45 watt/ch) - about same age as the car amp. It sounded completely different! For the better. Granted, the 19V supply probably made it effectively a 40 watt amp. I am wondering if the car amp is a class A device (it runs very hot all the time even with no music signal - if that says anything), or it maybe that the amp is designed to drive 4 ohm loads? There was more authority in the bass, the highs sizzled more, it just sounded *effortless* and more dynamic. A happy accidental discovery.
Anyway, I am going to be listening to this little car amp a lot more. Has anyone else had a happy discovery with their cheap car amp vs home amp?as cogitech insinuated above, the "right" amp depends on numerous factors, the room, program material, listening levels, and "your ears" among them
for example, in my +420ft^2 room, either of two amps with nominally the same amount of power ("13W") - Kingrex T20 and Tubelab P/P EL84 pentode, will satisfactorily propel the dual EL70s to beyond my normal listening levels ( i.e. well in the mid 90s), but the tube amp makes the ClassT sound like a transistor radio
at about half that power level, a DIY EL34 SE peals away another layer of obstruction to resolution of inner detail and microdynamics
at approx half that, a pair of 2A3 monos could be considered even "more right" - except of course for the attainable SPLs
David Kan might argue that point. 6moons audio reviews: Kingrex T20
For the record, I find it very difficult to digest all of that mumbo-jumbo.
Well, I might not be a published reviewer, and will certainly be wrong about a lot of things, but not what I "hear/feel" - which of course is subject to evolution.
I've owned both versions of the T20* (unfortunately the USB version died), and as well have heard several other Tripath chip based amps (Lepai, Topping, Trends, others?). While all have the indisputable advantages of compact size, high energy efficiency, low heat factor and great bang for buck value, no Class T I've heard to date approach the performance parameters I personally look for in an amp. Don't take that as a bias against SS in general or digital amps in particular - I've heard very wonderful (and unaffordable) examples of the former, and not enough of the latter to reach a "final (well, penultimate) conclusion"
I could start effusing mumbo-jumbo myself, but things like "intimacy", resolution of finely grained inner detail, micro-dynamics, soundstage dimensionality are what I tend to look for - coincidentally (or not?), these are similar characteristics that I enjoy from small to mid sized FR drivers - my preference for which is well documented herein.
Now if you want to really bemuse yourself with crazy talkin' mumbo-jumbo read some of Marja & Henk's articles .
* edit- FWIW, only with stock wall-wart and separate linear PSU, but not the SLAPS
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That be the reason we have the Kingrexes (one blowed up)
Chris, have you compared Kingrex to Topping?
dave
I really like the Topping TP-60. It got a better bottom than my tube PP and bit crisper top. I have to admit that the music I listen to sound better crisp than the soft warm sound of a SE tube. I am waiting patiently for the new TI class-D chips to reach the boutique market. Rumor is that they are much better than the Tripath chips.
Bob
Bob
I have a SMLS sa-s3. At first I dindt like it very much, nice but not close to my
Yarland FV34A single ended tube amp.
Then I decided to look at it as a power amp and I put a Atoll pre-amp before
it and then magic started to happen. It is now way better than the Yarland and
anything I had before.
Back to the topic. I decided on buying two pairs of EL70.
I want to do several designs with them. Start out with the micro-towers.
Later I want to build the bipole Metronomes. And maybe try a bipole ML-voigt (if that is possible).
I will be posting about results. I am gonna build them in my father's workshop
(professional tools at hand), but things will progress slowly due to health
problems of my mother.
Leo
Yarland FV34A single ended tube amp.
Then I decided to look at it as a power amp and I put a Atoll pre-amp before
it and then magic started to happen. It is now way better than the Yarland and
anything I had before.
Back to the topic. I decided on buying two pairs of EL70.
I want to do several designs with them. Start out with the micro-towers.
Later I want to build the bipole Metronomes. And maybe try a bipole ML-voigt (if that is possible).
I will be posting about results. I am gonna build them in my father's workshop
(professional tools at hand), but things will progress slowly due to health
problems of my mother.
Leo
me too
If this means a 30" high and 15' deep platform /"stage", then I'd imagine that the Castles would loose one of the performance characteristics that I think contributes to their soundstage dimension - the reflection from rear / side wall boundaries.
Pretty much what it is like. I was think that might be the case. You basically wouldn't have any rear boundary reflection. The top driver would be radiating up to a ceiling which is 8' above it. I guess a front radiating speaker would work better in this situation.
I am not anticipating these speakers will be used for high quality listening. I was thinking they would be fine for background music without leaving a lot of null spots in the room. I currently have in wall speakers on a side wall, which sound OK for TV sound, but poor for music. I could always build them and see how they work. If they don't work, I could always use them in the basement theater as surrounds. How do they work as surrounds?
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