microTower bipolar ML-TL for CHR-70 or EL70 - Page 51 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th February 2013, 05:40 AM   #501
leo2 is offline leo2  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middelburg
thank you for the advise Chris.

Nice to hear how you inherited your love for music from your mom.
Congratulation with her 80th birthday. You're a happy man giving such
a present.

So CHR in parallel should give me just under 4 ohms which would be in
favor of the t-amp; delivering 25Watts at 4 ohms.
El70 I'd have to wire in series, which gives me 8 ohms.
Is 13 Watts not a bit low in that case? Of course there is no Bsc and there's two drivers per side.

that brings me to Cogitech's remark
Quote:
..especially with the right amp!
What would be the right amp?

Leo
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 01:42 PM   #502
diyAudio Member
 
cogitech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kamloops, BC
Hi Leo,

I have run my EL70 microTowers with three amps; A modern Yamaha 2ch SS, a Lepai 2020A+, and a Shuguang I-25 tube amp.

The tube amp is by far the best at driving my speakers. So much so the I started a thread here recently to discuss full range amplification.

Granted, the Yamaha is not an example of high end SS, and the Lepai is probably the worst chip amp example. I actually find the Lepai unbearable at anything past 11 o'clock on the volume dial, and even at lower volumes it completely lacks imaging and realism (even compared to the Yamaha). This certainly has a lot to do with my chip amp's 2 ampere power supply.

Bob Brines and many others have reported great to excellent results with better chip amps but something tells me those systems just don't have the warmth and character of tubes. The rich, fluid bass that the I-25 brought to my system is just not there with the Yamaha or Lepai.

A really good SS amp (FirstWatt, Pass Labs, etc.) would certainly satisfy too, I am sure, so it comes down to personal choice.

For me, the $400 I spent on the Shuguang I-25 (Psvane TS-66) was the best audio purchase I have ever made and the synergy with my microTowers put my jaw on the floor.

The Lepai sounds like I am listening to a stereo system.

The Yamaha sounds like the performers are in my living room.

The Shuguang sounds like I am teleported to the room/venue with the performers.

Last edited by cogitech; 8th February 2013 at 01:53 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 03:41 PM   #503
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
Cogitech,
Maybe this is a little off-topic but just to follow up on your observations of how different amps make the same speakers sound different. I had an *old* Sony model XM2020 - 20 watt/ch car amp lying around (I stripped it from my car when the car got totaled 18 years ago). I hooked it up to a laptop power brick (19 V at 4.6 amps - way more than 12 V that a car amp typically sees). I took a chance as it could have blown up if the electrolytic caps aren't rated high enough. I hooked that to my speakers which were typically driven by a a Yamaha SS amp (45 watt/ch) - about same age as the car amp. It sounded completely different! For the better. Granted, the 19V supply probably made it effectively a 40 watt amp. I am wondering if the car amp is a class A device (it runs very hot all the time even with no music signal - if that says anything), or it maybe that the amp is designed to drive 4 ohm loads? There was more authority in the bass, the highs sizzled more, it just sounded *effortless* and more dynamic. A happy accidental discovery. Anyway, I am going to be listening to this little car amp a lot more. Has anyone else had a happy discovery with their cheap car amp vs home amp?
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 04:48 PM   #504
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo2 View Post
thank you for the advise Chris.

Nice to hear how you inherited your love for music from your mom.
Congratulation with her 80th birthday. You're a happy man giving such
a present.

So CHR in parallel should give me just under 4 ohms which would be in
favor of the t-amp; delivering 25Watts at 4 ohms.
El70 I'd have to wire in series, which gives me 8 ohms.
Is 13 Watts not a bit low in that case? Of course there is no Bsc and there's two drivers per side.

that brings me to Cogitech's remark


What would be the right amp?

Leo

as cogitech insinuated above, the "right" amp depends on numerous factors, the room, program material, listening levels, and "your ears" among them

for example, in my +420ft^2 room, either of two amps with nominally the same amount of power ("13W") - Kingrex T20 and Tubelab P/P EL84 pentode, will satisfactorily propel the dual EL70s to beyond my normal listening levels ( i.e. well in the mid 90s), but the tube amp makes the ClassT sound like a transistor radio

at about half that power level, a DIY EL34 SE peals away another layer of obstruction to resolution of inner detail and microdynamics

at approx half that, a pair of 2A3 monos could be considered even "more right" - except of course for the attainable SPLs
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 05:22 PM   #505
diyAudio Member
 
cogitech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kamloops, BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
...but the tube amp makes the ClassT sound like a transistor radio...
David Kan might argue that point. 6moons audio reviews: Kingrex T20

For the record, I find it very difficult to digest all of that mumbo-jumbo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 06:28 PM   #506
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
David Kan might argue that point. 6moons audio reviews: Kingrex T20

For the record, I find it very difficult to digest all of that mumbo-jumbo.

Well, I might not be a published reviewer, and will certainly be wrong about a lot of things, but not what I "hear/feel" - which of course is subject to evolution.

I've owned both versions of the T20* (unfortunately the USB version died), and as well have heard several other Tripath chip based amps (Lepai, Topping, Trends, others?). While all have the indisputable advantages of compact size, high energy efficiency, low heat factor and great bang for buck value, no Class T I've heard to date approach the performance parameters I personally look for in an amp. Don't take that as a bias against SS in general or digital amps in particular - I've heard very wonderful (and unaffordable) examples of the former, and not enough of the latter to reach a "final (well, penultimate) conclusion"

I could start effusing mumbo-jumbo myself, but things like "intimacy", resolution of finely grained inner detail, micro-dynamics, soundstage dimensionality are what I tend to look for - coincidentally (or not?), these are similar characteristics that I enjoy from small to mid sized FR drivers - my preference for which is well documented herein.

Now if you want to really bemuse yourself with crazy talkin' mumbo-jumbo read some of Marja & Henk's articles .

* edit- FWIW, only with stock wall-wart and separate linear PSU, but not the SLAPS
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi

Last edited by chrisb; 8th February 2013 at 06:48 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 07:41 PM   #507
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
David Kan might argue that point.
6moons audio reviews: Kingrex T20
That be the reason we have the Kingrexes (one blowed up)

Chris, have you compared Kingrex to Topping?

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 07:47 PM   #508
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
That be the reason we have the Kingrexes (one blowed up)

Chris, have you compared Kingrex to Topping?

dave

not yet - maybe this long weekend
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 08:21 PM   #509
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
We have a long weekend?

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2013, 08:35 PM   #510
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
We have a long weekend?
Not getting out much these days?

jeff
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Offset Bipolar MLTL with CSS EL70 Drivers--Part 1 Jim Griffin Full Range 48 18th October 2012 04:24 AM
Introducing The new CSS EL70 CSS/XBL CSS 41 19th April 2010 09:23 PM
Bipolar electrolytics dsavitsk Parts 3 8th January 2006 10:48 PM
How does this bipolar look? punchpeanut Solid State 11 2nd October 2003 07:48 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:29 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2