This idamping is based on that used in the original -- a single piece of 3" fiberglass insulation, placed diagonally across the line. The original did not have a restricted terminus so when you flipped it over it was clear.
We used a single piece of 3 1/2" Ultratouch, perhaps not quite enuff.
Attached is a quick and nasty drawing... one might want to tease out the insulation a bit to leave less open space. I've drawn it with 2 of the 2" thick pieces.
dave
Attachments
A few more words on Micro Tower listening experience.
One of my friends who is an avid gamer and movie buff came over for a day of "torture tests". The Micro Towers acquitted themselves very well, especially with my old PP amp. Being a gamer he had a whole bunch of game trailer/teaser videos i.e. (I did not allow him to game though!) Crisis 2, Deus Ex (new one), Halo and those played plenty loud with healthy bass. Same with movie material - metallic sounds were very clear in Transformers, vocals sounded deep but clear too. Playing back the Avatar HD trailer at high volumes, the driver excursion was scary at some points. I once remember a post that read "Mark Fenlon, your are a true artist" in appreciation of Alp 10.2s. I would like to add that what Mark has done with these modestly priced and sized 4 inchers (I am using CHR-70.2) is also pretty incredible. With the right amp, these speakers can cause hearing damage easily.
My friend is all into the kick that a sub-woofer provides. During the sessions he muttered a couple of times that with MTs, subs might not be necessary.
We took the speakers into a 20x14 TV room and hooked it up with the TV. Had to use the TV Monitor out as source and immediately realized that it is a poor source compared to my EMU sound card. Here the MTs again played well, very loud in fact with the 18 wpc PP amp. I often find that movie dialogue seems to be recorded at much lower volume level vs other elements in the movie. It results in crashing (and crushing) volume when there is some action going on, not so with dialogue - are center speakers the only way out here?
All in all, an impressive performance from the MTs. True, it does not have the kick and impact of a big woofer or sub - at least the CHR-70s can't make up for that. But otherwise good - I was trying to guide my brother and our friend to Twin CHR-Ken or Mar-Kel type of cabs - some finessed performance for them, some new speaker building for me. But after today's experience, if they decide to go the way of FR, looks like MT it will be.
Kudos to Dave and Scott for this easy to build yet well performing design, and Chrisb for the idea (the plans say the MT revival was his idea
) and his patient stream of tips to newbies like me.
-Zia
One of my friends who is an avid gamer and movie buff came over for a day of "torture tests". The Micro Towers acquitted themselves very well, especially with my old PP amp. Being a gamer he had a whole bunch of game trailer/teaser videos i.e. (I did not allow him to game though!) Crisis 2, Deus Ex (new one), Halo and those played plenty loud with healthy bass. Same with movie material - metallic sounds were very clear in Transformers, vocals sounded deep but clear too. Playing back the Avatar HD trailer at high volumes, the driver excursion was scary at some points. I once remember a post that read "Mark Fenlon, your are a true artist" in appreciation of Alp 10.2s. I would like to add that what Mark has done with these modestly priced and sized 4 inchers (I am using CHR-70.2) is also pretty incredible. With the right amp, these speakers can cause hearing damage easily.
My friend is all into the kick that a sub-woofer provides. During the sessions he muttered a couple of times that with MTs, subs might not be necessary.
We took the speakers into a 20x14 TV room and hooked it up with the TV. Had to use the TV Monitor out as source and immediately realized that it is a poor source compared to my EMU sound card. Here the MTs again played well, very loud in fact with the 18 wpc PP amp. I often find that movie dialogue seems to be recorded at much lower volume level vs other elements in the movie. It results in crashing (and crushing) volume when there is some action going on, not so with dialogue - are center speakers the only way out here?
All in all, an impressive performance from the MTs. True, it does not have the kick and impact of a big woofer or sub - at least the CHR-70s can't make up for that. But otherwise good - I was trying to guide my brother and our friend to Twin CHR-Ken or Mar-Kel type of cabs - some finessed performance for them, some new speaker building for me. But after today's experience, if they decide to go the way of FR, looks like MT it will be.
Kudos to Dave and Scott for this easy to build yet well performing design, and Chrisb for the idea (the plans say the MT revival was his idea
) and his patient stream of tips to newbies like me.-Zia
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Zia:
Like many of the Planet10 & Woden designs, the MT should be considered a team effort.
Re center channel for HT - I was more than a bit agnostic about this for quite a while - to be honest my hesitation was as much a matter of aesthetics / WAF etc as anything else, but since my wife realized she's happier spending less time watching in the downstairs system and gave me carte blanche to "do whatever you want, as long as it's not too ugly", there was more incentive to experiment.
Simply put, even though still at the mercy of wildly variable program mixing which even carefully calibrated channel levels can't overcome, the center is the most important speaker in a surround system. In playing around with several combinations of different brands and sizes of drivers for L&R mains and center, I settled on A7s as the best compromise of small enclosure volume for the center (on which most newer processors will allow separate XO points) and uniform spectral balance with the mains. It is maddening to be watching a favorite drama series in which location / intelligibility of voices vary significantly among scenes, and then have commercials step in often with better production values.
Like many of the Planet10 & Woden designs, the MT should be considered a team effort.
Re center channel for HT - I was more than a bit agnostic about this for quite a while - to be honest my hesitation was as much a matter of aesthetics / WAF etc as anything else, but since my wife realized she's happier spending less time watching in the downstairs system and gave me carte blanche to "do whatever you want, as long as it's not too ugly", there was more incentive to experiment.
Simply put, even though still at the mercy of wildly variable program mixing which even carefully calibrated channel levels can't overcome, the center is the most important speaker in a surround system. In playing around with several combinations of different brands and sizes of drivers for L&R mains and center, I settled on A7s as the best compromise of small enclosure volume for the center (on which most newer processors will allow separate XO points) and uniform spectral balance with the mains. It is maddening to be watching a favorite drama series in which location / intelligibility of voices vary significantly among scenes, and then have commercials step in often with better production values.
From reading all the warnings about the delicate nature of all the MarkAudio drivers, I cringed at your description of "torture tests." I sincerely hope the CHR70's made it out ok *afterward*. Otherwise, glad to hear of another positive review of the MTs.
FWIW, I think there have been far more MA drivers (except the more robust paper cones) damaged during installation than after careful break-in. I know that's certainly been our case ( personally 2, and Dave has several as well)
Only in the way you treat the early reflection area at the top. Damping moves from top to the now empty side and between the drivers should also include the volume vacated as the driver moves to the top.
dave
I also had my moments of clumsiness with these (nothing to do with playback of music though) and lucky that no damage was done.
Made sure speakers have gone through burn-in as Mark advises (it's an agonizing period - cos you just want to see how the drivers play). Been upping the volume only very recently, and drivers have been up to it every time.
-Zia
And fine team efforts they are!
Look forward to more such designs/initiatives that inspire, educate, and delight the DIY community.chrisb; Re center channel for HT - I was more than a bit agnostic about this for quite a while - to be honest my hesitation was as much a matter of aesthetics / WAF etc as anything else said:
Chrisb,
A7 would be superb choice for centre speaker indeed - but before assigning it the duties of HT, I would rather enjoy the sweet sound in Mar-Ken7s
. Trust the current generation of CHP-70s and CHR-70s can do a decent job for starters? I see there's a set of plans - Home Theatre Appendix on the Planet10 website. There are some interesting designs there... and they have good WAF .Some newbie questions:
1. Would the CHP-70 have a decent chance in working in one of those? (though I understand that it's parameters are a bit different and it's probably closer to EL70)?
2. Would mixing EL70 MTs mains with CHR-70 centre work? Or mixing is absolute no-no?
-Zia
The thicker fiberglass or rock-wool insulation can be a bitch to cleanly cut, but with a sturdy set of upholstery shears, the Ultratouch denim is pretty easy.
I notched the diagonal bat around the bracing- making for a very snug fit that required no adhesives or stapling (good thing, 'cause it's a tight squeeze to get tools inside these boxes) . A picture's worth a thousand words, but when I'm working alone, the last thing I have the discipline for is to stop to pick up the camera.
And fine team efforts they are!
Chrisb,
A7 would be superb choice for centre speaker indeed - but before assigning it the duties of HT, I would rather enjoy the sweet sound in Mar-Ken7s
Some newbie questions:
1. Would the CHP-70 have a decent chance in working in one of those? (though I understand that it's parameters are a bit different and it's probably closer to EL70)?
2. Would mixing EL70 MTs mains with CHR-70 centre work? Or mixing is absolute no-no?
-Zia
Once channel balanced CHRs would certainly work fine, but to retain "voicing" across the front row I'd be inclined to suggest keeping the same driver model, and would guess that CHP would be close enough to EL70 to be used as center.
Too bad Mark doesn't package either singles or triples of some of the smaller drivers for this application.
These questions will be answered when i actually get a chance to play with the data, which is certainly in the queue.
The HT Appendix is simply taking advantage of the CHRs penchant for a small sealed box (the happiest of any of the MA i have played with). It is purely a morphing of the shape while retaining the volume (5-6 litre/CHR). That and a wall mounted halfTower. Think of it as an illustration of what can be done.
Given their likely use with HT receivers i paid little attention to the potential for bass boost, letting the HT receiver use its smarts to flatten things out.
dave
Sorry Dave, are you referring to the new CHP-70.3 data? I was in fact asking about the current driver.
-Zia
say what you will about sonic qualities of the actual output stage (I've yet to test mine separately), but the improvements in affordable receivers during the past few years (mine cost less than $500) make that part of the set up almost fool-proof - but never fear, once you get to trying to program a single remote to operate the entire system, there's plenty of opportunity to declarify and obfuscate operation (push the wrong button - VOD- on the Shaw remote and it can take over a minute to get back to where you were)
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