hello,
i have just removed my dustcap of my fe167e: it is a bob brines ft1600 mkII. I must say, the change is BIG;
i was changing amps and still i thought of the speaker of being way to nasal, to much shouting. I removed the dustcap cause i didn't wanna listen anymore to the speaker (and if something went wrong i would leave this speaker behind). but now it is very very impressive. never thought that such a little thing could make so much difference.
the shouting is gone; i don't feel less weight in the lower frequency; nor do i find that the highs are less either, it is just that the sharp shouting sound is gone.
i might put in some phase plugs, does anyone has some info on making them yourself: i think they are around 1" or maybe a bit less (so that they don't touch the membrane). or can i fill up the gap with something ? and if so what?
anyway: thought to let the world know that this little mod is pretty impressive. i was looking for a long time to build someting else, now i don't know
greetz
i have just removed my dustcap of my fe167e: it is a bob brines ft1600 mkII. I must say, the change is BIG;
i was changing amps and still i thought of the speaker of being way to nasal, to much shouting. I removed the dustcap cause i didn't wanna listen anymore to the speaker (and if something went wrong i would leave this speaker behind). but now it is very very impressive. never thought that such a little thing could make so much difference.
the shouting is gone; i don't feel less weight in the lower frequency; nor do i find that the highs are less either, it is just that the sharp shouting sound is gone.
i might put in some phase plugs, does anyone has some info on making them yourself: i think they are around 1" or maybe a bit less (so that they don't touch the membrane). or can i fill up the gap with something ? and if so what?
anyway: thought to let the world know that this little mod is pretty impressive. i was looking for a long time to build someting else, now i don't know
greetz
then_dude said:
It's probably fair to say that removing the dust cap is only part of the improvement possible with these drivers - ask Bob Brines about the phase plugs he's using.
There's no particular voodoo to them, but dimensional accuracy and squareness of flat bottom is important. For the FE167 & FE166, the diameter is 22.5mm, length approx 40mm, with a bullet-nose shaped taper. Attachment to magnet pole piece by 2 countersunk flat head woodscrews. A skilled lathe worker could turn a pair of these out in fairly short order.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
net result should look something like :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Re: Re: fe167e dustcap fase plug
Actually with the next batch we are pushing the diameter out to 23mm (but with tighter tolerences)
Your comments about the removal of the dustcap are almost universal but most often accompanied by phase plug installation.
This thread might be of interest.
dave
chrisb said:
Actually with the next batch we are pushing the diameter out to 23mm (but with tighter tolerences)
Your comments about the removal of the dustcap are almost universal but most often accompanied by phase plug installation.
This thread might be of interest.
dave
Attachments
thanks guys,
good to know how big the plug needs to be.
i' m gonna look at the local diy store looking for something like that.
the sound is enormously better, today a few friend came by, they noticed it immediatly and one of them asked to build one for them, so it is pretty impressive.
i'll be reporting back.
ps: about painting the cone : there the results are more ambigious, some like it , some don't; so i'll need to read more about it.
greetz
good to know how big the plug needs to be.
i' m gonna look at the local diy store looking for something like that.
the sound is enormously better, today a few friend came by, they noticed it immediatly and one of them asked to build one for them, so it is pretty impressive.
i'll be reporting back.
ps: about painting the cone : there the results are more ambigious, some like it , some don't; so i'll need to read more about it.
greetz
thanks planet 10;
well maybe i should take the risk and start painting, cause the dustcap really did it for me, i should try to get everything out of this driver, before even think off building something else.
well i have searched a lot on the internet and this is what i found.
1)you supply the phase plugs (great)
2)there is a EnABL kit that i can buy.
But do i have everything then ?
i don't see mod podge in the kit ?
i'm still a bit in the dark about the painting
1)paint the cone and wizzer with mod podge
2)put on the enabl pattern (with the kit)
3)i also see trifoil pattern, nobody applies this ?
ps: did anybody ever compared a bob brines ft1600mkII with a frugal horn ? (i have seen your signature planet10: that's why ask, if i need to build an fe167e based speaker for friends i might as well build an horn in stead of another bob brines: which i think does a good job)
thanx
well maybe i should take the risk and start painting, cause the dustcap really did it for me, i should try to get everything out of this driver, before even think off building something else.
well i have searched a lot on the internet and this is what i found.
1)you supply the phase plugs (great)
2)there is a EnABL kit that i can buy.
But do i have everything then ?
i don't see mod podge in the kit ?
i'm still a bit in the dark about the painting
1)paint the cone and wizzer with mod podge
2)put on the enabl pattern (with the kit)
3)i also see trifoil pattern, nobody applies this ?
ps: did anybody ever compared a bob brines ft1600mkII with a frugal horn ? (i have seen your signature planet10: that's why ask, if i need to build an fe167e based speaker for friends i might as well build an horn in stead of another bob brines: which i think does a good job)
thanx
I just sent for the Enable kit from Ed laFontaine so I'm following these answers closely.
Going back through some EnABL stuff (there's a lot of it) you will see that the trifoil pattern is for the FE127e/126e. The Planet 10 site indicates that both of these have the same pattern.
I have one FE127 with no mods that I can start from scratch on this job.
Going back through some EnABL stuff (there's a lot of it) you will see that the trifoil pattern is for the FE127e/126e. The Planet 10 site indicates that both of these have the same pattern.
I have one FE127 with no mods that I can start from scratch on this job.
then_dude said:
hi; i'm anybody...
not in the same room @ the same time, but ft1600mkII plans were my beginning into building ML TLs, and after a couple more, I decided in general, i liked BLHs better.
A friend has a frugal horn, and, for the work, if you have the room, personally, i'd much rather have/ build an austin 166
http://www.frugal-horn.com/ronhorns.html
instead of using the 126 (unless it needs to be small), or trying to make a 167 work in something.
Or better yet use a pair of 166ES-Rs.
Or much better still, build front horns...
r
i have seen somewhere on thet interet : the pattern of the enable is indeed the same, just scaling is involved
thanx serenechaos, well that's not good news for me
. but the austin is not that easy to build, a lot of angles....
So the austin is better then the brines and the BVR's.
mmm, difficult, so if i should build anything it needs to be an austin, (i suppose that the brines are as good as the BVR's ? although they are quite different in design).
well, if i'm gonna build something new, i can take any driver: (i just tought that i can sell my pair of bob brines and step up a bit). (so i'm in it from a 108 until a 208)
a front horn is quite big, i don't mind about height of the speaker, but i do about floor surface area.
thanx serenechaos, well that's not good news for me
. but the austin is not that easy to build, a lot of angles....So the austin is better then the brines and the BVR's.
mmm, difficult, so if i should build anything it needs to be an austin, (i suppose that the brines are as good as the BVR's ? although they are quite different in design).
well, if i'm gonna build something new, i can take any driver: (i just tought that i can sell my pair of bob brines and step up a bit). (so i'm in it from a 108 until a 208)
a front horn is quite big, i don't mind about height of the speaker, but i do about floor surface area.
They're all very different, with different design goals, so comparisons with a view to which is 'better' are somewhat academic / limited as it depends on what you want. If you like what you have, is it worth changing it, or would you get more pleasure from enjoying what you have & buying a couple of dozen new albums (or whatever)? Only you can answer that one.
Assuming you are still thinking about a change, basic set of questions to ask therefore run along the following lines:
1/ What sort of material do you play?
2/ How big can you go?
3/ How large is the room?
4/ How far away do you listen?
5/ What's the rest of your system like?
6/ What preferences do you have in terms of presentation (scale, imaging, extension, physical weight etc)
Assuming you are still thinking about a change, basic set of questions to ask therefore run along the following lines:
1/ What sort of material do you play?
2/ How big can you go?
3/ How large is the room?
4/ How far away do you listen?
5/ What's the rest of your system like?
6/ What preferences do you have in terms of presentation (scale, imaging, extension, physical weight etc)
then_dude said:
mod podge is pretty much available everywhere. I would suspect that Ed would do an enhanced kit if you can't find some.
The other bits are harder so Ed's kit is a godsend. Due to French/English packaging laws in Canada i'm now getting my Pollyscale from Ed.
Step 3 is actually step one but only for a specific problam with the FE126/127 (as lon points out)
after the EnABL spots you coat the entire cone with gloss. I use 50% diluted with water, 3 coats on the cone + 1 coat on the front of the whizzer + 1 coat on the back of the flat lip of the whizzer. 1 coat of gloss on the phase plug after you add the spots.
Bob & Scott are locals that built FT1600 (from the free plans), we built Fonken167 (much harder, i haven't heard a direct compare, but they think the F167 is very good). John who ended up with Bob's ML-TLs replaced them with F167 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142690&highlight=)
We just finished building 4 more pair in 3 colour schemes.
dave
Attachments
i don't know about that "better" word...
so much of this is subjective...
i do think something like scottmoose's list hits the nail on the head though, maybe adding "what will i learn from it?"
i've built quite a few, that whether i ended up likeing or not, were worth the experience for what was learned.
how else does one find out the "family sound" of different drivers, much less TLs, BLHs, FLHs, etc, in different rooms, w/ different amps, etc, etc,
not just what others say, or what the book sez, but how they immedietly, subjectively, connect with myself.
e.g. many rave over 208 TLs; i just gave a nicely finished pair to my mother-in-law, she loves 'em...
so much of this is subjective...
i do think something like scottmoose's list hits the nail on the head though, maybe adding "what will i learn from it?"
i've built quite a few, that whether i ended up likeing or not, were worth the experience for what was learned.
how else does one find out the "family sound" of different drivers, much less TLs, BLHs, FLHs, etc, in different rooms, w/ different amps, etc, etc,
not just what others say, or what the book sez, but how they immedietly, subjectively, connect with myself.
e.g. many rave over 208 TLs; i just gave a nicely finished pair to my mother-in-law, she loves 'em...
attn moderators
Attn: Moderator,
I would like post #14 moved to a fresh thread called Enabl how to for the Fostex 127e.
The reason is that there are bits of application detail for enabl
in various places.
The Planet 10 post up there has the four initial steps for the FE127e driver.
When I ordered my kit, Ed told some things like: use a flame to burn off the wax on the pen nib.
Also in the Enabl process thread (huge) he mentioned thinning the paint by 10% with water.
Many bad starts could result (mine included) without gathering this info.
Attn: Moderator,
I would like post #14 moved to a fresh thread called Enabl how to for the Fostex 127e.
The reason is that there are bits of application detail for enabl
in various places.
The Planet 10 post up there has the four initial steps for the FE127e driver.
When I ordered my kit, Ed told some things like: use a flame to burn off the wax on the pen nib.
Also in the Enabl process thread (huge) he mentioned thinning the paint by 10% with water.
Many bad starts could result (mine included) without gathering this info.
Lon,
Post 14 has relevance to this thread... feel free to start a thread with "EnABL" tips gathered from elsewhere. The FE167 thread i linked to has a lot of info for any of the whizzercone Fostex.
Personally, i soak the tips in boling water to get the wax off, and store the ones i'm using in isoproyl alcohol (there -- 2 more tips for your thread). If you build it they will come.
dave
Post 14 has relevance to this thread... feel free to start a thread with "EnABL" tips gathered from elsewhere. The FE167 thread i linked to has a lot of info for any of the whizzercone Fostex.
Personally, i soak the tips in boling water to get the wax off, and store the ones i'm using in isoproyl alcohol (there -- 2 more tips for your thread). If you build it they will come.
dave
thanks guys for all the replies
@Scottmoose
1/ What sort of material do you play?
a lot of material: i like a lot acoustic music, small ensemble, vocals (i'm a singer), but i do also like things like zappa. i listen to jazz, blues, pop (everything that has a vocal and acoustic instruments is my favorite; but give me nice electric blues and i'm enjoying it very much too.
classical music: i like too, give me bach cello sonates and i'm in heaven on the fe167e, give me a mahler and it is off course a bit less.
i don't like metal or anything that is to noisy.
2/ How big can you go?
i can go big, at least in height, i have thougt a lot about open baffles, but 1m wide is a bit too much. i move around a lot, so it needs to fit almost eveywhere; but the maximum size for me is around 60cm wide, 60cm deep, and something like 220cm height: off course the problem can be: if the height is to much, then i need to sit back a lot of meters. this is not always gonna happen.
3/ How large is the room?
at this moment is it 3,3m height, 5m wide and 7m long, so it is okee i think
4/ How far away do you listen?
it depends where i put my speaker, it can vary from something like 2 meters up to 6
my next appartment will be listening position : 5,5 meter
5/ What's the rest of your system like?
i have a AMB gamma dac (which is super) and a tripath T2020 amp (but both parts will be replaced. (first the amp, by an tube or a beta22 amb amp) (the dac: maybe a twisted audio pear).
6/ What preferences do you have in terms of presentation (scale, imaging, extension, physical weight etc)
that is a hard question: well the answer for me is: reality: it needs to sound as real as possible. well let me adres the question from the FT1600; i find the extension of it quite okee, the highs are there and the lows certainly: it is scary how deep they go: off course you don't have the airy sounds, but i can live with the limitations of the FE167E;
imaging: a full ranger is always good at imaging, still it could be even a bit better (but i have no phase plug yet and no cone treatment done)
physical weight: well i you play diana krall the t2020 and FT1600 can deliver i think, but playing zappa it gets harder of course. i could step up to a bigger model of driver ?
7)about the money
well yesterday a girlfriend of a friend of mine walked in and she asked if she can buy my system completely, so i will have some cash from the sell out. off course stepping up from a fe167 to a 208sigma is a big price tag. don't know it is worth it.
@ planet10
thanks for the information.
so the ft1600 is a bitt les then the fonken; then my next project might be a fonken.
(ps i have build the ft1600 from the plans, i bought them)
i must say your builds look very very good.
@serenechaos
indeed it is difficult to judge what is better, a lot of times it is a compromise. but since a few people are telling me the fonken or the austin are better, i should look that direction.
@ loninappleton
i think that is a brilliant idea, lets put it all in one tread, all the information, so nobody messes up there drivers.
thanks guys
@Scottmoose
1/ What sort of material do you play?
a lot of material: i like a lot acoustic music, small ensemble, vocals (i'm a singer), but i do also like things like zappa. i listen to jazz, blues, pop (everything that has a vocal and acoustic instruments is my favorite; but give me nice electric blues and i'm enjoying it very much too.
classical music: i like too, give me bach cello sonates and i'm in heaven on the fe167e, give me a mahler and it is off course a bit less.
i don't like metal or anything that is to noisy.
2/ How big can you go?
i can go big, at least in height, i have thougt a lot about open baffles, but 1m wide is a bit too much. i move around a lot, so it needs to fit almost eveywhere; but the maximum size for me is around 60cm wide, 60cm deep, and something like 220cm height: off course the problem can be: if the height is to much, then i need to sit back a lot of meters. this is not always gonna happen.
3/ How large is the room?
at this moment is it 3,3m height, 5m wide and 7m long, so it is okee i think
4/ How far away do you listen?
it depends where i put my speaker, it can vary from something like 2 meters up to 6
my next appartment will be listening position : 5,5 meter
5/ What's the rest of your system like?
i have a AMB gamma dac (which is super) and a tripath T2020 amp (but both parts will be replaced. (first the amp, by an tube or a beta22 amb amp) (the dac: maybe a twisted audio pear).
6/ What preferences do you have in terms of presentation (scale, imaging, extension, physical weight etc)
that is a hard question: well the answer for me is: reality: it needs to sound as real as possible. well let me adres the question from the FT1600; i find the extension of it quite okee, the highs are there and the lows certainly: it is scary how deep they go: off course you don't have the airy sounds, but i can live with the limitations of the FE167E;
imaging: a full ranger is always good at imaging, still it could be even a bit better (but i have no phase plug yet and no cone treatment done)
physical weight: well i you play diana krall the t2020 and FT1600 can deliver i think, but playing zappa it gets harder of course. i could step up to a bigger model of driver ?
7)about the money
well yesterday a girlfriend of a friend of mine walked in and she asked if she can buy my system completely, so i will have some cash from the sell out. off course stepping up from a fe167 to a 208sigma is a big price tag. don't know it is worth it.
@ planet10
thanks for the information.
so the ft1600 is a bitt les then the fonken; then my next project might be a fonken.
(ps i have build the ft1600 from the plans, i bought them)
i must say your builds look very very good.
@serenechaos
indeed it is difficult to judge what is better, a lot of times it is a compromise. but since a few people are telling me the fonken or the austin are better, i should look that direction.
@ loninappleton
i think that is a brilliant idea, lets put it all in one tread, all the information, so nobody messes up there drivers.
thanks guys
planet10 said:
Ok. It should be easy to cut and paste the needed stuff and make an introductory post myself.
I told Ed he should include a training video with the kit.
There's lots of hints to assemble from all the talk on Enabl itself.
It's hard to tease those bits out of a thread that long and two years old.
And aside from some practice pieces I only have a one-ff piece to try
that has no mods and so it needs to be right the first time. I'll be practicing a while.
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