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Old 26th June 2009, 04:57 PM   #31
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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This is a very interesting thread, as I'm quite interested in trying the metal cone Alpair drivers after having already used Fostex drivers.


Forgive me if my question is actually a bit off-topic, but following up on the points made about the optimization of the cone - I saw a Fostex driver that have specially shaped cones, with radiating grooves/ridges on them. I haven't seen metal cones with these features, they all seem to be smooth.

Is this because of the differences between paper and metal cones ?
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Old 26th June 2009, 05:56 PM   #32
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigun

I haven't seen metal cones with these features, they all seem to be smooth.
I do have.
http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site...s3_7intro.html
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Old 26th June 2009, 06:44 PM   #33
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigun
This is a very interesting thread, as I'm quite interested in trying the metal cone Alpair drivers after having already used Fostex drivers.


Forgive me if my question is actually a bit off-topic, but following up on the points made about the optimization of the cone - I saw a Fostex driver that have specially shaped cones, with radiating grooves/ridges on them. I haven't seen metal cones with these features, they all seem to be smooth.

Is this because of the differences between paper and metal cones ?

Mark Fenlon could probably provide the keenest insights into the complexities of mass production of metal cone drivers to which we're likely to have direct access. Don't be surprised however, if he invokes some proprietary circumspection.

As with paper, Kevlar, Carbon Fiber, or plutonium nano-tubes , not all metal cones are engineered for the same purpose, as a quick visit to your local "high performance" car audio emporium would demonstrate.
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Old 26th June 2009, 09:24 PM   #34
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I (last night) replaced one of my FE103e's in small backhorn of my own design with an Alpair 6.

I hooked them up to a Sony HT receiver to compare quickly so do not know how they will fare on tubes or Tripath.

I have heard metal coned drivers before but it was a long time ago and the only thing I remember was that I was not impressed.

The Alpairs are a different kettle of fish to those I heard then.

These things are smooth and not "brittle" sounding at all.

Keeping in mind that I am one of the greatest proponents of the FE103's and while it is still very early, I think the FE103 may have at least met its match seeing that the Alpairs were literally "out of the box"
Thats how I felt as of last night anyway.

I still need to put more hours on the FE103's and tune the enclosure but I was very impressed with the Alpairs. They open a window into the sound and let you hear the sublety in a recording like the Fostex but without the rising response of the Fostex. They also seem cleaner, I think because of the lack of reflection through the cone. They certainly sound different to the Fostex, the Fostex somewhat drawing attention to itself while the Alpair just plays so smoothly and cleanly.

Anyways, during the next few weeks hopefully I will get around to more work with them but I like them a lot.
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Old 27th June 2009, 02:43 AM   #35
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by el`Ol I do have.
http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site...s3_7intro.html
Yep, that's exactly what I saw in terms of cone shape from Fostex.

Without giving away anybody's IP, what's the benefit of this shaping ?
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Old 27th June 2009, 04:54 AM   #36
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Hmm, I really like how those Thiel cones look. they must be very very stiff. I wish something like this was available to DIY market.
about paper and metal, IMO it doesn't really matter, all typically shaped cones are best used in narrow band, due to cone resonance.
If I was building full range system I'd look for driver with very deep cone profile, or one with ribbed cone. Since none of those available (with low inductance for full range use), the solution is DIY cone treatment (slicing, coating, replacing parts of a cone with different material, etc.)
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Old 27th June 2009, 10:06 AM   #37
Henkjan is offline Henkjan  Netherlands
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[offtopic]
Quote:
Originally posted by MisterTwister
Hmm, I really like how those Thiel cones look. they must be very very stiff. I wish something like this was available to DIY market.
at least in this part of the world, a 7" coax from Thiel is available for us DIYers.
[/offtopic]
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Old 27th June 2009, 10:28 AM   #38
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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The little fullranger (sometimes called coaxial despite having only one voice coil) is also available, but only in combination with the woofer.
http://oaudio.de/Loudspeaker-chassis...ao1pmfh4le95h5
There is a test of various small fullrangers in the current Hobby Hifi and I see the Thiel as the winner (closely followed by the Mark audio Alpair 6).
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Old 28th June 2009, 04:57 PM   #39
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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If I read the advert correctly, the Thiel coax you linked to are 699 Euros a piece, while the Alpair 6 have a llist price of $70 US. While it would be tempting to listen to a pair of the Thiels, the price of admission is certainly too rich for many of our budgets.

"Your pockets must be this deep to board this ride"

Like many others posting in this thread, I'm enjoying exploring a variety of designs for several models of Mark Audio drivers - at the prices noted above, most of the Alpair models can be acquired for less than the local sales taxes on the Thiels, or for that matter some of the other high end fullrange drivers from the likes of SEAS, PHY, et al.
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