Paper v. Metal Cones: Subjective Sound Characteristics - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 23rd June 2009, 03:48 AM   #21
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I would think waterfall plot graphs would show these resonances that make the cones sound like the material being used.

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Old 23rd June 2009, 06:39 AM   #22
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Waterfall won't specifically or reliably indicate the cone material type. I'm measuring cones themselves. It's a whole different ball-game.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 08:05 AM   #23
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Old 23rd June 2009, 08:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by norman bates
?
A typical waterfall doesn't have the resolution to see anything. Typically you see 25-30 dB of vertical scale. To even come close to what (i guess) Mark is doing* you would need 2-3 times that rez. That is probably an impractically large anechoic chamber as a pre-requiste in your measuring kit.

*(laser interferometry (like B&W) or microflown (Geddes mentioned this euro tech))

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Old 23rd June 2009, 02:48 PM   #25
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Well designed metal coned drivers can produce more accurate bacground sounds in a recording than paper coned drivers. This is mainly why paper coned drivers sound drier.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 03:23 PM   #26
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Full Ranger -

Thank you for contributing to this thread. Do you cross over to a sub? If so, at what frequency? Do you use one or two subs?

Regards,

Karl
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Old 23rd June 2009, 03:41 PM   #27
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Mark -

Thanks for the technical information regarding cone resonances, materials, and perceived sound quality. Does the "peak positive" and "peak negative" phenomenon (Sp ) depend upon location of the resonance on the cone?

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Karl
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Old 24th June 2009, 12:19 AM   #28
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Hi Karl,
Yes it does. The resonance pattern changes as it travels along the cone's surface. Resonance is influenced by the size, profile (shape), mass and suspension of the cone. Also, the mass and connective method of the coil influences the cone's emitting properties. Being able to observe the physical properties of a cone under load conditions at the micro level is very useful.

The main reason for having accurate micro-measurement of the resonance pattern from many points on the cones surface, is we can close-control the production of this component. I've developed a new Computer Numerically Controlled (CNC) tooling system for the production of metal alloy cones, named Multi-Form-Mass-Reflex (MFMR). I've developed this technology with support, design and manufacturing input from Japan. Sounds posh but in engineering terms, its important. The tooling allows us to control the thickness of the cone on any part of its profile as its being made. The relationship between the cone's mass and its ability to flex is more predictable with this method of production.

Most cone production today involves some work by hand, especially metal alloy cones. Hand assisted forming can lead to wide variations in the cone's mass and shape. Making these components using MFMR delivers closer tolerance accuracy, repeatable for large scale production. This helps to reduce variations between drivers. It also contributes to the production of reliable publicised test data.

I've also started to apply some of the techniques to paper cones. There are significant differences in the production method, but close control technology is being applied and like metal alloys, we can observe the resonance properties from any changes we make the cone's design

MFMR also affords us the opportunity to extend the cones resonance range. Will this lead to metal alloy cones sounding more like paper? This aspect is hard to predict as the "human" element is relatively immeasurable. One audiophile's idea of a good sound is another's opinion of the same sound being bad. All the same, extending a cone's ability to emit over a wider range is useful. This feature offers end-users increased performance from a single point source. The tooling is now complete for 71-mm and 128-mm cones. The results can be seen in the Alpair 7 and 12 models.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Mark.
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Old 26th June 2009, 12:11 PM   #29
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Anybody compared Alpair 10 or Jordan JX92s to Visaton B200 with phase plugs?
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Old 26th June 2009, 02:50 PM   #30
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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I heard the titanium diaphragm omnidirectional DDD from German Physiks and I find it better than any paper cone fullranger I know (and I know a few). Especially no metal sound at all. Unfortunately I canīt say much about other metal cone fullrangers, I only heard the little Jordan as midrange in an LCY speaker.

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Must the DDD be so expensive?
I can imagine bringing titanium foil in such a steep cone shape canīt be done by simply pressing a flat foil. But why is the further handling a "pains taking process", as stated on the German Physiks website? Isnīt the driver build very much like a conventional one in terms of spider and surround?


Oliver
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