Paper v. Metal Cones: Subjective Sound Characteristics - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 19th June 2009, 07:37 PM   #11
CSS/XBL is online now CSS/XBL  Canada
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Hi,

The Audience A3 was developed as a replacement for the Bandors in the line array products. The physical size of the face plate/mounting had to remain the same; everything else was open to the designer's creativity and skill.

One of my OEM customers for Mark Audio drivers will not consider a spiderless driver but I'm not sure if he's explained his reasons.

In general, I prefer paper cone drivers but I'm not sure if I can explain that accurately.

Bob
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Old 19th June 2009, 08:32 PM   #12
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Dave -

Do you think that the Alpair 5 "grey" could be mated to my Paradigm PDR-8 sub?

Regards,

Karl
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Old 19th June 2009, 08:38 PM   #13
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Kouiky -

On paper, lightweight cone drivers do look very good, as long as cone break-up is not apparent. It's the ringing and other distortion types that you mentioned that give me pause. That's why I am not ordering my Bandors quite yet.

How did you address the stored energy problem? What size and type of box did you use for the Alpair 5 drivers? Were they the "gold" or the "grey" units? Did you use a sub? If so, where did you crossover?

Regards,

Karl
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Old 19th June 2009, 08:41 PM   #14
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Bob -

Do you know why Audience dropped the Bandor?

Does anyone think that anything is really gained by not using a spider? Would that necessarily enable greater transient response to a discernable degree?

Regards,

Karl
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Old 19th June 2009, 09:15 PM   #15
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Karl,

I can't share all that I know about some of these situations.

Bob
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:14 PM   #16
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Bob -

I understand.

Karl
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Karl71
Dave -

Do you think that the Alpair 5 "grey" could be mated to my Paradigm PDR-8 sub?

Regards,

Karl
I'd cross a single sub at 150Hz (does your paradigm have decent response to >500 Hz?) but you'd be better with a pair of active woofers 200-350 Hz.

dave
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Old 20th June 2009, 12:00 AM   #18
Karl71 is offline Karl71  United States
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Dave -

The Paradigm's internal crossover is variable from 50Hz to 150Hz.

Karl
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Old 22nd June 2009, 07:45 PM   #19
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Karl,

I have been using Bandor 4 ohm drivers (2 per side) for the past 20 years. After living with QUAD ESL57s for many years, the Bandors are the closest thing I have heard to the "electrostatic experience", only without the high voltage power supplies.

There is NO metallic quality to Doreen's drivers. I wouldn't hesitate to get more Bandors (if only the price would be as attractive as it was 20 years ago...).
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Old 23rd June 2009, 12:39 AM   #20
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Hi Karl,
There's a very interesting question you initially developed on the wider issue regarding the differences between metal and paper cones. While I've been working with metal cones over recent years, I'm now also making paper variants. Much of my research work is on the oscillation and resonance characteristics of cones while under various load conditions. I've developed a method for measuring the resonance pattern at various points on a cone's surface. Sorry I can't go into detail for commercial reasons but I can state that there are significant differences in the way these materials behave.

Many full range paper cones are low mass, usually lower than metal alloys. However, lowering the mass of any cone isn't a pre-requisite for the material's ability to increase its resonance pattern.

The peak-positive and peak-negative resonance wave for paper is flatter than metal alloy for a given input. Think of it as observing the difference between the top of a mountain (sharp) and that of a hill (rounded), paper has a slightly larger radius to its peaks. This effect is largely due to the structural differences between paper and metal alloy materials.

Tests results appear to coincide with the perceptive differences many of us hear between paper and metal alloy drivers. That is, we perceive alloy coned drivers as generators of "brighter" responses while paper units produce "dry" tones.

I should stress that more evaluation is needed using human test subjects of sufficient sample size to reliably associate human response with cone resonance characteristics. Also, it's not all down to cones themselves. Other driver components influence a cone's performance. Nevertheless, the test outcomes so far are reasonably indicative.

For those who know my driver designs, this post gives you some indication of my work into producing metal alloy cones with more tonal neutrality.

Cheers,

Mark.
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