What, oil and water don't mix now?! - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th May 2009, 02:11 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Default What, oil and water don't mix now?!

Ok, so I'm quite the noob, I admit.

Here's what I done.

Finishing my first build Zigmahornets, I put a couple coats of this... finishing stuff I had lying around. A colourless, water based product.

Coat, dry, sand, coat again. But it's not building up. Then I see from the label it's called a "top coat".

Oh, so, maybe I need something else. Voila. I find this Ikea oil based product I'd used ealier to finish some little utility drawers I got from there.

I put it on.

24 hours later, it's still, ahhhh, wet. No evidence that it's fixin' to dry.

I thought maybe it's because the stuff is old. Then it occured to me, I may have made a blunder. Oil based over water based product. Somewhere from the back of my mind there's a little voice that's (only now) suggesting that could be a no-no.

What have I done? And, more importantly, what CAN I do now?

My humble (if not grovelling) thanks, in advance.

Brenton
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 04:35 PM   #2
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
If the oil finish has not yet dried, it shouldn't be too hard to remove with a petroleum based solvent. Sandpaper or steel wool abrasives alone will get clogged, and won't remove all the product. I'd suggest a volatile lacquer thinner or automotive paint "gun-wash" cleaner as opposed to paint thinners (mineral spirits). With adequate ventilation, the more volatile solvents tend to evaporate more quickly, and are certainly more aggressive.

This'll definitely be messy and stinky, so ventilation and lots of disposable cloth rags (not paper towels) , rubber gloves and perhaps a respirator will be in order.

Remove the drivers and tightly stuff the driver cut-outs with rags or paper towels to prevent contamination of enclosure stuffing.

Use coarse rags or steel wool along with the solvent to strip the oil finish. Once it's completely removed and dried, you need to decide how you want to refinish the boxes. If you want an oil based finish, you'll need to completely remove the water-based product first. A random orbit sander (starting at 150 or 220G) would be your best bet. To assure penetration and adhesion, you want to see dry wood swarf (sanding dust) before applying any new finish material.

Remember to safely dispose of rags used with any oil based finishing products ( or in a salute to the little old Horn maker, add them to your next outdoor bonfire) - that's a joke
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 04:41 PM   #3
Mr Evil is offline Mr Evil  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind you
In general, oil based paints will go over water based paints just fine. The other way around is not so good.
__________________
https://mrevil.asvachin.eu/
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 05:02 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Default Re: What, oil and water don't mix now?!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wha' DIYa know?

Coat, dry, sand, coat again. But it's not building up. Then I see from the label it's called a "top coat".
What's the substrate? Solid wood? Veneer? MDF?
And, if wood, what species?

Two coats with sanding between isn't much. You shouldn't be surprised that you don't have much buildup. Too late now, but continuing with your top coat applications would have done the trick.

However, now that you have applied oil, probably the easiest thing to do is just remove any uncured excess oil with solvent, and leave the boxes in a warm (sunny) spot for a few days to cure and dry out. Then make some decisions.

If you are using veneer, sanding to a stage where you can re-finish from scratch is probably not an option at this point.

It sounds like you want a 'shiny' finish. Oil is a poor choice for this. You might consider a solvent-based varnish or lacquer for proceeding forward from this point. While you are waiting for your boxes to dry out and 'settle down' you can make up some test panels from scraps, using the same finish combo you have on the boxes. Then you can test various finish ideas for adhesion and compatibility without messing with the enclosures.

Cheers
John
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 05:12 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cayman Islands
Quote:
What, oil and water don't mix now?!
Of course they do, its called an emulsion

forgive me, I could'nt resist.

Now back to
__________________
None of us are leaving this world alive. Enjoy it responsibly as you may.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 05:43 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Hey Guys,

Thanks for this good assistance.

It's 1/2" birch ply I've used for the speaker boxes.

Quite right, it's a shiny or moderately shiny finish I was hoping for.

Guess I have some elbow greasing manual labor ahead of me now!
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 08:39 PM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
The Zigmahornets aren't that large a surface area that it would be too difficult to strip them down to the raw veneer ply surface (substrate as VictoriaGuy calls it). As I mentioned above, it'll just be a bit messy, as the two different types of existing products require different removal methods.

Once that's done and stroke sanded to 220G, if you're looking for an easy to apply semi to glossy finish, I can highly recommend the Mohawk aerosol spray nitrocellulose lacquer. It gives a nice slightly amber finish, and as a true solvent borne spray is quick drying and builds very nicely with 2-3 coats.

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictNbr=430
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 08:48 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Thanks Chris,

That's what I think I'll do then.

Nice day here today. Maybe a trip to Home Depot on the way home, and a couple hours in the setting sun & the'll be stripped.

Tomorrow sanded and finished.

Wednesday, playing music!

Fingers crossed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2009, 09:13 PM   #9
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Quote:
Originally posted by Wha' DIYa know?
Thanks Chris,

That's what I think I'll do then.

Nice day here today. Maybe a trip to Home Depot on the way home, and a couple hours in the setting sun & the'll be stripped.

Tomorrow sanded and finished.

Wednesday, playing music!

Fingers crossed.
FWIW, I don't think you'll find a true spray lacquer at Home Depot - most likely they'll have Zinser shellac, or Tremclad / Varathane polyurethanes (which is probably close to what you've already used)

The specific product I've used before is:

http://www.richelieu.com/produit/det...gr&no=M1020412

If you're interested, the distributor in Calgary for Mohawk Finishing Products is:
Richelieu Hardware
5211 52nds Street SE
403-203-2099
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2009, 12:07 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chris,

You saved me a trip to Home Depot. Though close, a wasted trips a bother.

The dealer you mention is n't too far from work. Perhaps I can duck over there tomorrow at noon!

Now the plan is taking shape.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
water cooled zen amp. firezab Pass Labs 100 23rd September 2009 02:21 PM
Water chamber sub Guss Subwoofers 42 1st December 2003 01:58 AM
hmm water cooled amp karma Everything Else 1 20th August 2003 11:43 PM
Water cooled plate on ebay (possible water cooled amp application) BrianGT Parts 1 27th May 2002 03:19 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:43 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2