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#151 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
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Quote:
![]() Between the very large value of caps required for even a simple 1st order slope* ( eg circa 130mF) and the power required that would subsequently be wasted if attenuation was required due to a big difference in sensitivity between drivers, the total cost of implementing a passive XO could quickly skyrocket. (* don't even think about the cost of a 4th order LW for this type of application ) Of course if you already have a high powered amp the sound of which you're happy with, that's great; but in our case we'd generally be using lower powered tube amps on the wide-band ( a magical combination with the FF85K ![]() It was also assumed that since most DIYer's contemplating this type of project likely have more than a couple of amp stages kicking around, a simple dedicated frequency PLLXO could be put together for little money, and yield the advantages of bi-amping; not the least of which are improved dynamic capabilities and flexibility of level adjustment. In the case of the Planet10 system pictured at the beginning of this thread, I'd suggest you read posts 1 - 4 for an explanation of how / why we chose this route. One of the huge advantages of the PLLXO / bi-amp method, particularly if both amps have volume controls, is the flexibility it allows for trying different drivers for either bass or mid/high range - the only time you'd need to change passive components would be if either of the amps were changed with something with a different input impedance, or if the XO point itself were moved. but back to your original question? I'm not sure if Dave or anyone else has actually crunched the numbers on a passive high level XO - of course you'd need to know exactly which drivers were intended.
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#152 |
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
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No one has done a passive XO for Tysen as implemented (that i know), Passives have been left for another implementaion with more appropriate woofers. Now that FF85 has been discontinued, we'll likely wait for Alpair6.2 and Alpair6p (the protos are superb) for small speakers. Currently working on a statement version of Tysen with 4 SDX7 & Alpair7 per side. With a lower XO yet, it almost by requirement will need to be active.
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#153 |
diyAudio Member
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maybe a bit OT, but any rumours of a more efficient driver with a more friendly impedance from Alpair, something that can really replace Fostex ?
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"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." Robert M Pirsig. |
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#154 |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Herefordshire
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Hi Dave,
I'm very interested in your Tysen 4 SDX7 & Alpair7 project. What kind of active xo are you heading toward? In my experience few active xo's do as little damage to the treble than a good foil cap. I hate grainy treble. Obviously FAST rules that kind of solution right out! Is a PLLXO likely to crack the problem?
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. Last edited by simon dart; 30th July 2010 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Clarification |
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#155 | |
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
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Quote:
As well, real world efficiency as measured in the field with a pair of ears seems to be higher than the ears would indicate (that may be pcho-acoustic due to the generally higher downward synamic range) dave
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#156 | |
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
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Quote:
To start i flipped my FonkenWoofs upside down (PP SDX7), a flipped over set of R1 dMar-Ken7, and will have a 1st draft PLLXO to get a feel for them. 1st set of A7eN is just being finished up (and i sent a set to Bud), If this one works out, i'm thinking of A12 + 2 or 4 SDX10. That in theory would plumb the depths of LF & dynamics without resorting to horns. dave
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#157 |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs
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there was a design in a german diy magazine which had the Alpair5 and the Alpair10bass with a passive XO. just looking at thhe complexity of that XO would explain why both Dave (with the Tysen) and I (with Nescio) did not go the passive route.
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#158 |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
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It's too bad about the supply issue, it's a very nice looking package.
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#159 |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
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Hello,
Since the BSC is built into the A7, do you find that your PLLXO can go lower? Was your first tysen's XO point chosen higher to compensate for BSC. (Fostex) Thanks. |
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#160 |
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
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The XO is picked based on a lot of experimenting with a DCX2496 (the one i had to use, something only a microphone could love) and then some fine tuning.
dave
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community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA |
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