A thread for Tysen and variations on FAST - Page 10 - diyAudio
 A thread for Tysen and variations on FAST
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diyAudio Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Proposal for FAST Speaker

Quote:
 Originally Posted by planet10 The FF85KeN is in an aperiodically damped 10:1 taper TL. I wanted to tune the TL as low as i could within the limited space i had available. dave
I've been reading this thread with some interest. I've drawn up a proposal for a FAST speaker using Fostex FE167E and CSS SDX7.

I calculated the midbass based on Q=3/8 cubic ft (Bessel Butterworth) But now I need some help with working out "aperiodically damped 10:1 taper TL".

I would like to reduce the width of the cabinet, but need to figure out the full range side first.

I currently have MLTL's with FE167E, which I do like. However, my music collection dictates what I need more of, Midbass and BASS.

Thank You.
Attached Images
 Proposal For FAST FE167E.jpg (57.7 KB, 1191 views)

frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ljfont I calculated the midbass based on Q=3/8 cubic ft (Bessel Butterworth)
Bessel = 1/2 cubic ft
Butterworth = 1/4 cubic ft

I like to use 14-17 litre

Quote:
 But now I need some help with working out "aperiodically damped 10:1 taper TL".
With its much lower Fs you'll need a longer line for the FE167.

I suggest you fold it which would give about twice the length you have.

With the FE167 you can XO lower, with the FE127eN Fonken XO at 100 Hz which lets me mount the SDX7(s) at the floor for more room support.

dave
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 13th October 2009, 06:25 AM #93 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator     Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 5 Here is Chris661's spinoff thread Cheap Version of the famous Tysen speaker. dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
 Originally Posted by planet10 Tysen was not formed out of whole cloth. After successfully hatching the mFonken, we still wanted something smaller. This led to the uFonken with the FF85. When we started this we knew that they would often get used with a woofer, and concurrently ordered a Keiga 2.1 amp and built a 14 litre sealed SDX7 woofer to go with the uFonken and hold the Keiga amp. After listening to this for awhile* we decided that a pair of woofers that would act as stands. *(not quite as planned -- the satelitte amps in the Keiga were prettry poor sounding, so we fudged that -- turns out that there is a compression cicrcuit in the HF amp chain that when removed improve things immensly) This is what we started with. I borrowed DCX2496, set upo the old G3 Lombard PowerBook with measuring mic/Fuzzmeasure and played with all sorts of XO arrangements. With the DCX the only one happy with the sound was the measuring mic, but i learned a lot about XOing the combo -- for instance, as pictured the woofer is upside down -- i got quite severe combing until i fliipped it do the woofer was close to the mid-tweeter. Attached is one of the FR curves. The limits at the bottom may not be the speaker but the Lombard's analog input and the roll-off at the top is from too long a mic cable. Althou a bit saddle shaped it is +/- 2dB from <30 Hz out to beyond 15k. There is a small amount of lift set at 25 Hz. In the end i choose a 1st order XO on the woofer & 2nd order Bessel on the midtweeter at about 350 Hz. The low order XO on the woofer helps fill in the baffle-step loss. In this case the natural rolloff of the SDX7 above 1k doesn't hurt either. A close approximation of this can be implemented as a PLLXO (Passive Line Level XO Passive High-Level Crossover). dave
great. come on guy

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Quote:
 Originally Posted by planet10 I like to use 14-17 litre With its much lower Fs you'll need a longer line for the FE167. With the FE167 you can XO lower, with the FE127eN Fonken XO at 100 Hz which lets me mount the SDX7(s) at the floor for more room support. dave
I did a couple of versions:

A - Longer TL line with the SDX7 closer to the bottom, but further from the FE167E. No extra space.

B - Shorter TL line with the SDX7 farther from the bottom, but closer to the FE167E. Lots of extra space.

Each proposed has a 15L capacity for the SDX7, and the line was divided in three place it closer to the woofer.

Which would be better? Longer line, lower XO or Shorter Line, probably higher XO, but possibly less combing effects? Hmmm.

Thanks Dave and Martin King(for you worksheets)

Leo
Attached Files
 FE167E_SDX7.pdf (55.7 KB, 150 views)

frugal-phile(tm)
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
I was thinking something more like this sketch

dave
Attached Images
 FE167-Tys-sketch.gif (11.6 KB, 977 views)
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p10-hifi forum here at diyA

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Quote:
 Originally Posted by planet10 I was thinking something more like this sketch dave
Is that considered a small ML TQWT? Is the "Closed End and Ported Transmission Line" model applicable here?

I guess I don't really know what a aperiodically damped 10:1 taper TL is.

aperiodically - definition of aperiodically by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

aperiodic [ˌeɪpɪərɪˈɒdɪk]
1. not periodic; not occurring at regular intervals
2. (Physics / General Physics) Physics
a. (of a system or instrument) being damped sufficiently to reach equilibrium without oscillation
b. (of an oscillation or vibration) not having a regular period
c. (of an electrical circuit) not having a measurable resonant frequency

Does the 10:1 ratio mean the amount of damping that occurs in the TL from the ported end to the closed end. Further above you discussed denser damping at the terminus.

Thanks.
Leo

 14th October 2009, 06:20 AM #98 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator     Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 5 Leo, It is a tapered TL. Aperiodic means it is heavily damped. For midrange use the stuffing gets denser as you approach the terminus, with almost none right behind the driver. 10:1 is the taper ratio. The cross-section area at the driver end is 10x larger than the cross-section at the terminus. dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Quote:
 Originally Posted by planet10 I was thinking something more like this sketch dave
Plugged a few numbers in and this is what I got so far for the midTL.

Note: Plots generated from Martin King Worksheets
See Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
Attached Images
 FE167E_Aperiodical_10to1_TQWT_1.JPG (28.5 KB, 913 views) FE167E_Aperiodical_10to1_TQWT_2.JPG (24.8 KB, 857 views)

Last edited by ljfont; 15th October 2009 at 07:52 AM.

 15th October 2009, 08:44 AM #100 diyAudio Member     Join Date: Sep 2004 So, what's the secret handshake to get at these worksheets. They aren't on his site Cheers!

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