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Old 4th May 2009, 09:45 PM   #1
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Default 206e alternates

my first post on these board but i have been lurking for a while. i am still in the learning stages about speakers(im a headphone guy) so pardon whatever ignorance seeps through.

most of my listening so far has been done via sennheiser hd 650 headphones. ive gone through about 10 amps and 3 sources and the final verdict was that they sounded best a tube amp. all sources were dac's fed by spdif from a computer fed with lossless files. i am not much of a cd person. i lack the patience to sit through an entire cd and often times i just want to hear different tracks from various artists and having all my music in a program offers the best solution.

at any rate, the 650s have a very smooth, grain free and laid back presentation. lots of headphone people maintain that they have some sort of veil on the top end. sounds like there is a very thin layer of cotton around the drivers. however the veil disappears when amped by any top notch headphone amp. i dont like that. the sound signature i prefer is a dark velvety sound that is just a wee bit slow. something that you would hear on a humid night at the back row of a concert. i listen to fairly low volumes turning up the headphones on a very few select songs. the bass is very weighty with the 650s also to my preference. i HATE bright top ends or anything with too much treble energy. anything that sounds tinny or metallic or harsh causes physical pain to my ears so is completely out of the question.

here is the actual question now. i have had a chance to hear fostex 206e's in a hedlund horn and in a bib. in the hedlund, they sounded much more refined where i could hear every note distinctly but it sounded too analytical and non cohesive (perhaps it was the solid state amp, i dont know for sure). the bass was articulate but not as weighty as i would have liked it to be. with the bib it was almost perfect. the sound was nice and warm. the notes were a little muddied but it sounded like music. no treble energy. very tame high end. depending on where it was placed in the room, the bass was either perfect or overpowered the rest of the frequency range and made everything boomy. however, all the way in the back of the corner it was just perfect. it didnt sound shrill or tinny.

both drivers have their center piece cut out with empty sockets in place currently. phase plugs are in the process of being turned out as i type this. perhaps my opinions of the speakers change with their introduction. overall i prefer the bib over the hedlund and i think i might get to hear the drivers in a dallas/sachiko cabinet as well but it is the very drivers i have a question about. for about the same price range ( +- $150) is there any other driver that can given me a nice dark creamy sound or should i try the speakers with a tube amp first to see if it was the solid state amp causing the coldness. the 206e's are phenomenal with what they do but they dont sound like the headphones i am used to. obviously i shouldnt try to make one sound like the other but it is the sound signature i am looking for.

any and all suggestions for the drivers, mods to the drivers, amps, preamps, mods to the cabinet etc would be appreciated.

thanks,

cj.
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Old 4th May 2009, 10:02 PM   #2
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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CJ:

My money's on a decent low powered tube amp (either DIY such as Bottlehead S.E.X, or up-coming "Stereomour" 2A3 integrated/ Decware, or manufactured such as Glow, etc) to elicit the most intimate and emotionally involving performance from the 206E in any of the appropriate enclosures; i.e. most likely some form of BLH or BIB

Be advised that such enclosures, and most particularly the double forward facing mouth designs such as the Sachiko, will require a large room - both to support the low frequencies, and to integrate the soundstage.

As for mods to the drivers see my signature line for disclosure, but the Planet10 EnABL treatment and phase plugs are pretty hard to beat. You've apparently already got the latter underway; the former can be DIY, but is not a project for a polka-dot newby for the faint of heart or impatient.
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Old 4th May 2009, 11:27 PM   #3
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thanks for the quick reply.

the woodwork and mods (everything really barring the listening part) is being done by a master woodworker and a very practiced diyer. the closest ive come to the whole thing is just listening to it. i trust him fully.

the room the speakers will be going into is currently 13x9 feet. however i will be moving into a new house where i think the largest space i will be able to appropriate from the housemates will be somewhere around 16x15 AT THE MOST. chances are the room will be probably 14x14 or something similar in size.

the room itself will just have the speaker rig, 2 desks and a chair and a bedsheet (i sleep on the floor). the bed sheet shouldnt offer any obstructions to the sound but the desks might. i will be going for something very low profile in terms of the size of the desk so shouldnt be THAT big of a problem. the rest of the room will be empty. if required i can move in some bookshelves as diffusers.

given the above, should i be looking at something else entirely besides the 206e horns? as before, suggestions are welcome.
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Old 5th May 2009, 03:03 AM   #4
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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I'll let others weigh in on the question, but my initial response would be yes, I'd look at something in the way of a smaller driver & enclosure. If you like what your heard from the 206E in Hedlund enclosure, the Fostex sound might be right for you, and either of the next smaller size drivers could be a better fit.

Be advised however, that even for the FE166e, a BLH, BIB or double mouth SPAWN series enclosure might well still have issues with listening distance. Perhaps one of the Half sized BVRs such as Half Chang ( FE207) or Half Chilli ( FE167) would be work looking at. I've built a couple of pairs of Brynn (FE127E), and although they can definitely benefit from bass augmentation, I like them very much.
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Old 5th May 2009, 03:47 AM   #5
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Given you listening prefs, (and ignoring a possible change in driver size), 207 might well be more appropriate than 206.

dave
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Old 5th May 2009, 06:34 AM   #6
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any suggestions for cabinets for the 207 driver (or are they the same as the 206e?

the same gentleman who is working on the 206e drivers and all those horns also built a pair of monitors using the 127e drivers for a friend of mine in this cabinet.

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeaker...-FE127e-BR.pdf

i havent spent as much time listening to them but they sound excellent for the price. the bass is obviously lacking but from monitors i wouldnt expect a lot. having said that, the bass is not hollow sounding like i had expected it to be. nice tight bass. not much weight to it though. mid range is magical. hopefully i get some more time to listen to those monitors.

is the 2 way (206/207 + sub) route worth considering in my case where the listening room is not that big? or should i just keep things simple with one driver?

thanks again to all for the helpful responses.
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Old 5th May 2009, 07:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by crappyjones123
built a pair of monitors using the 127e drivers for a friend of mine in this cabinet.
I didn't know that i ever put that one out there. That is an early conceptual drawing fro what turned out to be the mFonken.

Quote:
is the 2 way (206/207 + sub) route worth considering in my case where the listening room is not that big?
Once you make the decision to use helper woofers (not necessarily subs), the choice of potentional mid-tweeter becomes much broader. I've found myself listening to uFonken (FF85KeN) with the FonkenWoofTLs (2xSDX7) this last week.

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Old 5th May 2009, 07:08 AM   #8
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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There's quite a difference between the little FE127 near field monitor and any optimal design for either the 206 or 207.

To echo Dave's post above, your situation might well be better served by the 167, for which Scott and Dave have a couple of excellent designs - the Half Chili and Fonken '67
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Old 5th May 2009, 02:52 PM   #9
hm is offline hm  Europe
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Hello,

"any and all suggestions for the drivers, mods to the drivers, amps, preamps, mods to the cabinet etc would be appreciated. "

look on my homepage
look the single measurement of a 206 E
than you understand why i constructed the sats:
Trumpet, Horn, Schalmei.

FR: SAXOPHON
look the single measurement of a 206 E
than you understand why i constructed the Saxophon

for the money is the SICA LP 208.38/1100
and the standart Audio Nirvana 8" a good choice
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File Type: png fe206e-spl.png (15.8 KB, 419 views)
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Old 5th May 2009, 03:20 PM   #10
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The 206 isn't going to sound like a pair of Sennheiser headphones -I know their signiture of old; I've even got a pair of their cheaper 570s for use with the PC. Not that I'd call them dark or creamy myself. Anyway, you're not going to make a 206 sound like that, whatever you do, although a current-source or very low DF valve amp and listening a few degrees off axis (which is essentially what they're designed for) will help.

Chris & Dave's suggestion of the 167 or 207 is a canny one -they're inherently a smoother drivers. Personally, I prefer them to the 166/206, but YMMV as ever of course, & they too, benefit from a phase plug. Most drivers with whizzer cones do.

Given your lack of space, I'd avoid very large cabinets as they won't integrate particularly well. You'd be better off going for something a bit more modest. In floorstanding terms, there are plenty of good options around the for the 167 & 207; Dave's 167 Fonken immediately comes to mind, as does Bob Brines's FT1600 MLTL. Bob also does an MLTL for the 207, and a reasonably large BR standmount too -given the kind of sound you like, I suspect that latter would be right up your street, and Bob doesn't charge much for his detailed plans: http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pages/FB-20/Main.html
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