Jericho horn speakers with Audio Nirvana Super 8"

[mark_maya]

Originally posted by GM


Cayin TA-30 with supposedly 8 ohms of output impedance, though I questioned it at the time. I didn't go look it back up before responding, just assumed it was a 300B (my bad), so maybe it's not as bad as I implied, though 300Bs typically have at least 2.4-2.5 ohms and often higher, so factor in what are probably high Vas, Qts specs and a relatively huge BIB is required.

FWIW, here's what I suggested using published specs/8 ohms:

L = 138" (69" folded)
zdriver = 30"
Sm = ~347.07"^2 (15.687" W x 22.125" D)
a-b-c = 11.06"

GM

Hi GM,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, we did PM a year ago & I thank you agian for taking the time to correspond with me back then... but I never received your design recomendations for the alternative to the BIB. Honestly, I assumed you just lost interest, so I did not pester you.

In the meantime a friend has given me a pair of power amps (built by a tech here in Atlanta) based on the WE 91A SET typology, w/ WE 300b output tubes.

Just hoped the BIB/300B SET/AN Super 8 CF might have good synergy because the BIB design is probably right for my quite basic woodworking skills.

I enjoy visiting these forums. Hope I haven't upset you.

Respectfully,

Mark

[GM]

Originally posted by VictoriaGuy

GM-
Interesting.....

Greets!

Most of the major ones I've done designs for AFAIK or they shouldn't have elicited such high praise, though I must say that recent posted Fostex, Jordan specs makes me wonder. For sure, during my active building days, Altec, JBL, Peerless, Scan-Speak, Philips, data was always accurate enough to the point where I quit measuring them except for horn apps.

Remember, I said referenced to T/S max flat alignments, not individual specs which within reason aren't required for sealed or simple vented box alignments. Higher order alignments and horns OTOH require somewhat more accuracy of course. Anyway, I took the averaged measured specs alignment's Vb divided by the factory specs alignment's Vb to get the ~4.81x difference. So much for me trying to prove my viewpoint through obfuscation.

As for trusting 'amateur' measurements over factory specs, I consider the source and in the case of the AN S10, its own cab alignments make much more sense to me using the former's rather than the latter's.

T/S isn't the 'be-all-and-end-all' of speaker design as you can make excellent performing speakers without them, but what they do is allow one to pare its size down to the bare minimum and calculate a ~optimum tuning without the need for much fine tuning with the downside of course being they have to be fairly CLOSE TOLERANCE to the published specs for (technically) good performance.

GM

[VictoriaGuy]

GM-
Thanks for the patient reply.
I do tend to get a bit 'defensive' about the avalanche of negative comments that mention of the AN drivers seems to provoke around diyaudio. Sorry about that, but the ANs tend to 'bury the competition' for most folks who visit my decidedly non-audiophile living room, and may well be a good choice for many people.

Originally posted by GM

Remember, I said referenced to T/S max flat alignments, not individual specs which within reason aren't required for sealed or simple vented box alignments. Higher order alignments and horns OTOH require somewhat more accuracy of course. Anyway, I took the averaged measured specs alignment's Vb divided by the factory specs alignment's Vb to get the ~4.81x difference. So much for me trying to prove my viewpoint through obfuscation.

Well, you lost me, for sure...but that's not too difficult.
As I said, basic T/S parameter differences of 50% between manufacturer and 'outside testers' (I won't say 'amateur' if that helps) are not good. However, differences of 10-30% between the published values for the AN10 from 'outside testers' don't inspire much more confidence.

Cheers
John

[Scottmoose]

Avalanche of negative comments? Out of interest, where are those? The CSA cabinets regularly get a deserved roasting, but the drivers generally don't provoke much in the way of negative press, other than in their wild deviations from the factory claims, and the larger units generally mandating extremely large boxes. For people outside the North Americas, there is little incentive to buy units from the range that have direct equivalents by rival manufacturers, as their price advantage is mostly wiped out by postal costs, import duty / taxes etc., but they do score with the other units -particularly the cast frame and larger drivers. Setting price / spec. aside, the ones I've heard have been OK; I'd like to hear the 12in & 15in units at some point -given the price, they've clearly had to compromise, so it'd be interesting to see just how far.

[rjbond3rd]

Hi Scott, I also want to hear the AN 15". I am seriously tempted by them.

[Scottmoose]

Yeah, AFAIK, they're the first 15in FR (OK, that's stretching it, make it WB) units since the 1940s, which lifts the interest factor. How far they've had to compromise, given that you can only do spo much for the money -well, it'd be interesting to find out. Need an enormous cab. though, even using the factory specs.

[schro20]

FWIW I had the distinct pleasure of hearing the Rocky Mounting Big Horn (http://rockymtnaudio.com/) at RMAF in Denver this past fall. VERY impressive. The version I heard had the 10in AN driver in it. The gentleman who builds these horns also told me that he built them with 12in AN. They were driven by some vintage McIntosh tube amp at a couple of Watts or so and had a depth and range and clarity that made it one of the best loudspeakers (in its category: single driver) which I heard at RMAF. (The best by far was the Linkwitz Orion [no surprise there] and a speaker by some German guys that was silly expensive but also phenomenal.)

Anyway, since having heard the big horn building something like that has been on my list (behind a whole bunch of other things on my ever longer list... )

Peter

[GM]

Originally posted by mark_maya


Hi GM,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, we did PM a year ago & I thank you agian for taking the time to correspond with me back then... but I never received your design recomendations for the alternative to the BIB. Honestly, I assumed you just lost interest, so I did not pester you.

In the meantime a friend has given me a pair of power amps (built by a tech here in Atlanta) based on the WE 91A SET typology, w/ WE 300b output tubes.

Just hoped the BIB/300B SET/AN Super 8 CF might have good synergy because the BIB design is probably right for my quite basic woodworking skills.

I enjoy visiting these forums. Hope I haven't upset you.

Respectfully,

Mark

Greets!

You're welcome!

Hmm, at this point in time I only vaguely remember not hearing from you after awhile, so forgot about it. Just as well considering the apparently way far off specs combined with your TA-30's listed output impedance would have probably only got you a ~one note bass in any reasonable size cab.

Regardless, you've lost me, you're still wanting a BIB even after you dismissed the one I suggested as a minimum size, but say I was supposed to do an alternative (what?) that unfortunately I don't remember anything about it which I assume was part of our telecom, so please refresh me.

WRT the 91A, what's its 8 ohm tap DF or measured output impedance since it's probably different from the TA-30's?

Your room/seating the same as you emailed me? If so, please resend the photos, I apparently didn't save them.

Let's get this 'show on the road', I want to hear what all the 'fuss' is about with these drivers.

GM