since this has become a little of a graphic design thread: try photoshop little app for iphone, it will clean app the noise pics and make them look way better. add some glow and you don't even have to tell us how they sound
btw. very nice, i like white with the flavour of cone, think i'll be copying
My first post.
I used WinISD to calculate box for CSS EL-70. Do you see there is some major problem with my design (see pic)? Volume is 17litres and tuning 46-47hz. There would also be little driver brace inside (like in pensil70).
I like this shape of the box (tall and narrow) (now 1235 x 180 x 137).
pic View attachment Pensilli.doc
Nice forum!
I used WinISD to calculate box for CSS EL-70. Do you see there is some major problem with my design (see pic)? Volume is 17litres and tuning 46-47hz. There would also be little driver brace inside (like in pensil70).
I like this shape of the box (tall and narrow) (now 1235 x 180 x 137).
pic View attachment Pensilli.doc
Nice forum!
There are others on this board that are much more expert at this type of thing and can maybe fill in the details, but from what I know, as a box become longer and narrower and more "tube" like, it begins to act like a "Transmission Line" and big resonances form up along the length of the tube, so the entire box begins acting like a port. If the length of the box is just right (relative to the cross section area) this effect can be used to great effect to tune the bass response of the speaker. If it's NOT just right it could create some nasty effects, boomyness and the like. I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain exactly what the effects would be, unfortunately.
Yes. One has to move to the MJK software or alignment tables to get things right.
The box envisioned is awefully close to the already sorted microTower (2 drivers) or halfTower (1 driver/13.5 litre tuned to 42 Hz) ML-TLs
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/microTower-maps-150909.pdf
dave
As in above post, your design is an ML-TL and the BR sim won't reflect what is happening.
And even if made a BR, it is not all that pretty. The dip & the bump up should be avoided.
dave
Attachments
hmm. You're right about halfTower. That design is only 35mm wider than what I had in mind (if possible I need more narrow). It's also shorter but can be "lifted" - halfTower is 838mm tall. I need to make it about 1200mm. Does half tower lose it's meaning if vent is done like this:
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii|iiiiiiii |
iiiiback |iiiiiiii | front
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii| ___|
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii|____ <--- square or pipe (tuned to halfTower 42hz)
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii|iiiiiiiii|
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii|iiiiiiiii|
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii|iiiiiiiii| <-- lift to 1200 (stuffed)
______|____|_______ ground
Annoying picture (sorry) hope you get the meaning..
Also it is possible to make it more narrow (more deep).
dMar-Kens kick some serious a**
dMar-Ken initial impressions: compared to Morduant-Short Avant 906i floorstanders, these are easily in the same class, or better. Although, perhaps not as much apparent bass, it is more controlled than the MS's, and seem to go at least as low. They punch like a champ. Are these really only 4" drivers (CHR-70eN)? The top end isn't glaring at all, actually very smooth. The soundstage is deep and wide. Based solely on my memory (which isn't as good as it should be), I'd say these better the Fonkens w/o eN (the ones I reviewed for Affordabl$$Audio, a few years ago). Not having a pair of FE127eN Fonkens to compare them to, I can't say which would be the winner. The apparent efficiency is similar to the MS speakers as well. Without any measuring devices a little hard to verify, but the impression is that the CHR-70eNs in a P10 designed Onken style box are capable of satisfying almost all listeners. My wife, the consummate "doubter" that she is stated emphatically: " I could easily live with only these loudspeakers, they sound incredible"
My wife loves music but almost always faults speakers as not being as good as our old Castle Durham 900 speakers. We both love the old Castles. Usually she complains about not enough bass, top end too bright, mid-range too chesty...the missus' final comment:"these speakers make you want to listen to music". Not sure there can be anything more to say regarding the sound.
For context the amp was my old Nakamichi Stasis "SR-2" receiver. Nelson Pass (or more correctly Threshold Corp?) licensed Nakamichi the Stasis technology. All I can say is that the "little" receiver delivered the goods. I know I could easily live with the the SR-2 and these speakers, my old Pioneer Elite cdp, and my Oracle Alex/SME 309/Grado Sig 8 setup without missing the big McCormack DNA-0.5 deLuxe/McCormack Micro Linedrive/PSIII phonostage that I usually run. Obviously the McCormack setup is more versatile, and more powerful, but it is not required with these speakers. Nelson Pass had suggested to me to use a 10 watt, 1Ω resistor per channel to lower the dampening factor. My comments are based on not following this suggestion. As soon as I can scrounge up a couple, I'll definitely be trying it .Until I get the chance to seriously listen to these with a couple of different amplifiers, my comments need to be kept within the context of the SR-2.
I will try a T-amp (Nuforce Icon) and a tube amp (Phillips 6BM8 based), and the big McCormack pair. Oh, how I am looking forward to the next few days....
dMar-Ken initial impressions: compared to Morduant-Short Avant 906i floorstanders, these are easily in the same class, or better. Although, perhaps not as much apparent bass, it is more controlled than the MS's, and seem to go at least as low. They punch like a champ. Are these really only 4" drivers (CHR-70eN)? The top end isn't glaring at all, actually very smooth. The soundstage is deep and wide. Based solely on my memory (which isn't as good as it should be), I'd say these better the Fonkens w/o eN (the ones I reviewed for Affordabl$$Audio, a few years ago). Not having a pair of FE127eN Fonkens to compare them to, I can't say which would be the winner. The apparent efficiency is similar to the MS speakers as well. Without any measuring devices a little hard to verify, but the impression is that the CHR-70eNs in a P10 designed Onken style box are capable of satisfying almost all listeners. My wife, the consummate "doubter" that she is stated emphatically: " I could easily live with only these loudspeakers, they sound incredible"
My wife loves music but almost always faults speakers as not being as good as our old Castle Durham 900 speakers. We both love the old Castles. Usually she complains about not enough bass, top end too bright, mid-range too chesty...the missus' final comment:"these speakers make you want to listen to music". Not sure there can be anything more to say regarding the sound.
For context the amp was my old Nakamichi Stasis "SR-2" receiver. Nelson Pass (or more correctly Threshold Corp?) licensed Nakamichi the Stasis technology. All I can say is that the "little" receiver delivered the goods. I know I could easily live with the the SR-2 and these speakers, my old Pioneer Elite cdp, and my Oracle Alex/SME 309/Grado Sig 8 setup without missing the big McCormack DNA-0.5 deLuxe/McCormack Micro Linedrive/PSIII phonostage that I usually run. Obviously the McCormack setup is more versatile, and more powerful, but it is not required with these speakers. Nelson Pass had suggested to me to use a 10 watt, 1Ω resistor per channel to lower the dampening factor. My comments are based on not following this suggestion. As soon as I can scrounge up a couple, I'll definitely be trying it .Until I get the chance to seriously listen to these with a couple of different amplifiers, my comments need to be kept within the context of the SR-2.
I will try a T-amp (Nuforce Icon) and a tube amp (Phillips 6BM8 based), and the big McCormack pair. Oh, how I am looking forward to the next few days....
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The cross-section can be changed as long as area remains the same. One has to be careful if made too narrow. This brings the sidewalls close to the driver and can cause a "cupped" or "chesty" midrange colouration. Port can be moved from the bottom, to the front, back, or side. Just keep it as close to the bottom as practical. You can mount it on a wall, or lift it up as required.
dave
dave
My garage is covered in glue and clamps - my dMar-Ken70 won't be finished tomorrow, but they should be done next weekend
dMar-Kens, con't
oops, sorry if I let the cat out of the bag.
So, are the plans for the dMar-Ken released? If yes, can someone point me to them please?
I guess you might consider myself and TheSeeker as "beta" testers. My enthusiasm did overtake me. Sorry Dave. Thanks to Mike (my audio "partner") for being game to try these out as well.
keith_correa:
I'd suggest that you do contact Dave, and order up at least a pair of his modified drivers, and build these. But there is at least one serious caveat. These speakers may be driven by various amplifiers, but you may choose to wait to see what further listening tests reveal regarding amplifier matching. I knew the old SR receiver would be a good match, based on its use with various fullrange drivers. Not all amps may be as compatible. Tubes and t-amps should be as well, depending on quality and type of tubes used. Hot sounding SS designs should not be used---these speakers are particularly revealing and many SS amps simply won't allow you to enjoy them. Your face could get ripped off , depending on whether the amp used is "hot" sounding. Naim amplification should also be very enjoyable with these speakers, I think. A Naim Nait integrated could do wonders, but again this is only a suggestion and I have no way of verifying this.
I blew a fuse in my McCormack amp last night, so won't be able to report on that until at least tomorrow, but it is a big smooth sounding amp, not in yer face at all. I suspect it will do well with these speakers.
Hope this helps any who may be sitting on the fence regarding these drivers. Methinks the sound easily justifies the cost in modified form. I am sure Dave will have a few sleepless nights modifying larger batches of these drivers. Again, sorry Dave.
oops, sorry if I let the cat out of the bag.
So, are the plans for the dMar-Ken released? If yes, can someone point me to them please?
I guess you might consider myself and TheSeeker as "beta" testers. My enthusiasm did overtake me. Sorry Dave. Thanks to Mike (my audio "partner") for being game to try these out as well.
keith_correa:
I'd suggest that you do contact Dave, and order up at least a pair of his modified drivers, and build these. But there is at least one serious caveat. These speakers may be driven by various amplifiers, but you may choose to wait to see what further listening tests reveal regarding amplifier matching. I knew the old SR receiver would be a good match, based on its use with various fullrange drivers. Not all amps may be as compatible. Tubes and t-amps should be as well, depending on quality and type of tubes used. Hot sounding SS designs should not be used---these speakers are particularly revealing and many SS amps simply won't allow you to enjoy them. Your face could get ripped off , depending on whether the amp used is "hot" sounding. Naim amplification should also be very enjoyable with these speakers, I think. A Naim Nait integrated could do wonders, but again this is only a suggestion and I have no way of verifying this.
I blew a fuse in my McCormack amp last night, so won't be able to report on that until at least tomorrow, but it is a big smooth sounding amp, not in yer face at all. I suspect it will do well with these speakers.
Hope this helps any who may be sitting on the fence regarding these drivers. Methinks the sound easily justifies the cost in modified form. I am sure Dave will have a few sleepless nights modifying larger batches of these drivers. Again, sorry Dave.
No new listening notes, but sources...
keith_correa:
As well as my comments regarding the amplifier(s) of choice to consider, also look at your sources. If typical consumer schlock, then start there. Even a decent $100 dvd player, may sound better than your current cd player. Also look at speaker cables. Remember to consider the system as a system, not a group of individual components.
This is not a comment or statement about spending $$$. If there is a giant killer out there, and you are considering an upgrade (not a change for its own sake), then consider a purchase.
If you are confident in the suitability of your system, then buy the drivers, and build these. If you must have more bass, use a good quality powered sub, or build one (or 2 which is much better).
count on about USD$300 (maybe a little more) to build the enclosures and drivers. The rest can go towards internal wiring, binding posts, stuffing, etc. If you like the multi-ply look then seal them, then some stain or paint, then a coat or two of poly. Budget either buying or building a good set of stands or make a stereo pair of subs that they can sit on.
keith_correa:
As well as my comments regarding the amplifier(s) of choice to consider, also look at your sources. If typical consumer schlock, then start there. Even a decent $100 dvd player, may sound better than your current cd player. Also look at speaker cables. Remember to consider the system as a system, not a group of individual components.
This is not a comment or statement about spending $$$. If there is a giant killer out there, and you are considering an upgrade (not a change for its own sake), then consider a purchase.
If you are confident in the suitability of your system, then buy the drivers, and build these. If you must have more bass, use a good quality powered sub, or build one (or 2 which is much better).
count on about USD$300 (maybe a little more) to build the enclosures and drivers. The rest can go towards internal wiring, binding posts, stuffing, etc. If you like the multi-ply look then seal them, then some stain or paint, then a coat or two of poly. Budget either buying or building a good set of stands or make a stereo pair of subs that they can sit on.
Thanks, that's kind of the line I was thinking along, but was wondering what sort of range the crossover would need to be. Still in passive territory, or down in active territory.
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