Mark Audio CHR-70 Application Thread - Page 52 - diyAudio
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Old 24th May 2010, 03:06 PM   #511
tresch is offline tresch  United States
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Originally Posted by TheSeekerr View Post
Oh, and for all that they're low efficiency, they play plenty loud enough - I've been testing with a 15W Class-T amp. I think we sometimes forget that 90dB is actually pretty loud.
Yeah! If the speaker is designed for a short-range monitor like that, efficiency is rather moot.

Also, the new "silver cone black dustcap" thing is rather sharp, and the artist in me really wants to design a box that accentuates that feature.
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Old 25th May 2010, 05:26 PM   #512
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default small speakers, big sound, T-amps

I've tried these (dMarKeNs) with several amps. The best thus far has been a SE 6BM8 2 watt Phillip "console" (using the speakers as extension speakers). They are quite beautiful to listen to from 8'+ The sub does add some 'staging abilities (not that the dMarKeNs are deficient in any way in this regard)

None need make excuses for these speakers, they truly are "almost full range". They play deeper than my Castle Durham 900 loudspeakers (similar efficiency). I've tried a 10" Kef powered subwoofer with the X-over set to 30Hz, and output barely perceivable while inches away from the sub box itself. These little speakers will play plenty loud enough to drive most people from a moderately sized room (not any of Dave's rooms as he has 15'-20' ceilings at his place).

In order of preference for amplifiers tried that I have on hand:
  • Phillips 6BM8 console, circa 1961
  • Nuforce Icon digital amp (not a T-amp)
  • Teac Reference 100 mini system, used as an amplifier only
  • Nakamichi SR-2 Stasis receiver (thanks to Nelson Pass for designing and licensing the topography that allowed these to be made)

The Nuforce Icon is the natural choice, even though Nuforce suggests not to use the Icon as an integrated in a home audio system. I think this combination is the "cheapskate's choice". I will be writing up further comments for June's Affordable$$Audio, I think (but I better get writing;p ).

I still have not tried them with the DNA 0.5, as I finally discovered the problem with it and have fixed it. I needed to replace all 4 fuses--- only replacing the one that was burnt resulted in terrible sound.

Since completing the dMarKeNs I have tried the CHR-70eNs in a small baffle that is designed to replace the Jordan JX92s OB portion of the Spirit of Orion loudspeakers. Comparing the Jordans vs. the "eNs" is a no-brainer. The "eNs" are much smoother. They lack a tiny bit of sparkle compared to the Jordans, but I suspect that the Jordans add sparkle. I still have not finished the cabinets (they are built, just have no finish on them), but will do so now that the drivers are in the little baffles.
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Old 25th May 2010, 06:37 PM   #513
doorman is offline doorman  Canada
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Nice looking speakers, Stew!
Not surprised the Phillips amp sounds so good.
We had something similar (I think) way back before they were considered "vintage"!
Don
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Old 25th May 2010, 07:12 PM   #514
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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The Jordan's can be worked on. Suddenly very sweet and clear, with no metal flavoring at all, once to Jordan JX92 eN spec.

Bud
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Old 25th May 2010, 07:15 PM   #515
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Quote:
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The Jordan's can be worked on. Suddenly very sweet and clear, with no metal flavoring at all, once to Jordan JX92 eN spec.

Bud
It will be interesting to hear how the Alpair12eN works out... they (currently) have the same retail as the JX92 (and to my ear) start out ahead.

I think that Stew's point is that you can buy 2 pair of CHR70eN for the price of a stock set of Jordans (with change left over) -- gives you an idea how well the CHRs respond to EnABL (no other treatment, other than matching) on these

dave
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:45 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by Nanook View Post
I suspect that the Jordans add sparkle..
yes, by what i recall they were intended to cross somewhere infront of the listener, so have a rise to maintaing hf balanced, or something like this in some interview to venerable Ted Jordan.

Dave, did you got a chance to listen to enabled alpair10 and compare them to enabled chr70?

Nanook, what frequency do you cross them OB? once crossed what spl do you think they will handle, is there a way to calculate it?
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Old 26th May 2010, 01:30 AM   #517
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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I think that Stew's point is that you can buy 2 pair of CHR70eN for the price of a stock set of Jordans (with change left over)
Sounds reasonable to me, but if he already has the Jordans then why not treat them too, was my thought. Of course, it might limit the market place, still, though you have done Herculean work there.

Bud
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Old 26th May 2010, 03:03 AM   #518
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did you got a chance to listen to enabled alpair10 and compare them to enabled chr70?
Yes. The A10 responds in all the same ways as the CHR. I think they need a bit more work to sweeten the top end, but with the A10 Mk2 almost here, i'll have to start over again. I also loaned them out (in Mar-Ken10) an they don't seem to be coming back. I think Jeff hopes i forgot he has them

Just got a 2nd set of A7, that is where i'll be starting with the new gen of Alpairs. 2 dozen CHR Mk2 should be here shortly too.

And i have a special project in the works for the A12.

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Old 26th May 2010, 03:04 AM   #519
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if he already has the Jordans then why not treat them to
They should get treated for sure...

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Old 26th May 2010, 06:40 PM   #520
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default my comments regarding versatility of the CHR70eN drivers.

The point is not to pick on the Jordans. Personally I like the Jordans, and I like their slight top end rise. Obviously the Jordans should be treated as well... but... my audio partner (Mike) has the Spirits, and the complete speakers are his.

He had enough faith in me and my "design" abilities to take a chance and buy all the required supplies to make them. The investment was: plate amps (2); the subs (2); the Jordans; and all the wood, binding posts etc. None of the items were cheap, including the Baltic Birch plywood used for the compete enclosures (I still don't have pictures of the complete speakers). I supplied templates/guides for the side "cheeks" (modelled after Linkwitz's Orion loudspeakers and basic dimensions for the subs). Together we wired the amps up, and built the speakers and amp enclosure. The decision to eNABL them is entirely his. However getting together to make refinements and changes is difficult because his business is very weather dependant. He is generally "on call" 24 hours a day for 10 months+ per year. Even listening to each other's systems can be difficult, if not impossible.

Concerning affordability, the intent was to show that you can have (what I feel) is superior performance (the CHR70eNs) at a much lower cost (than the Jordan JX92s drivers). As far as versatility, I have found the CHR70s to work very well in a small OB, and the Onken style cabinet design of Dave's. This opens up this hobby to many more folks based on amplifier power, type, and costs. The CHRs are 90dB efficient vs the Jordans at 88dB, so the need for more powerful amplifiers are not required. Good quality watts cost $$$, as illustrated by Nelson Pass' "First Watt" concepts and amplifiers. Rather spend $$$s on a few GOOD watts than lots of them. (I have spent essentially all of my adult life promoting this idea to as many people as would listen. Unfortunately it usually falls upon deaf ears. The few that I have convinced to listen to a low power system, usually become life-long converts and embrace it whole heartedly)

Perhaps Dave can comment on the measured sensitivities of these two drivers, or a comparison of the impedance curves should be considered, but with at least 2dB difference, the CHRs can be driven quite nicely by a smaller class D, class T, or tube amp. The Jordans seem to realy like solid state amplification (or perhaps the increased dampening factor) usually associated with them.

Folks (and not intended as an affront to Bud, who I respect and enjoy...
particular the one chance I have had to share "face time" with him), but I have tried to stay on task and on topic for this thread. Bud's contributions cannot be understated regarding the "EnABL" process (his invention, free for personal use), the "ground pool electrons (again his use and implementation), and of course the transformer work that he has carried on with many years.
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