measurements
I've been turning money into sawdust for quite a few years now and I've learned to use measurements less and less.
Learning about some 'traditional' methods of work can save a lot of problems for the average woodworker.
Some possibilities:
Work from a full-size plan- it won't take that long to draw (yes, with a pencil, not a computer). Posterboard aka Bristol board works well for smaller projects, or a chunk of 1/8 ply if you have some handy. It's cheaper if you can fix mistakes with a pencil.
Layout aka 'story' sticks
Cut your larger panels to measure, then mark the position of the 'minor' components on the panels, then cut to fit.
Assemble as you go, cut to fit.
Make temporary 'spacer blocks' from scrap to position pieces for assembly.
If I am doing an operation more than once, I start thinking about quick jigs and fixtures to avoid measurement errors. Drilling,routing jigs can save a lot of measurement.
Going directly from a cutting list to a pile of pieces is important if you are in a production environment, or producing flat-pack kits, but older techniques work well for one-off projects.
Cheers
John
I've been turning money into sawdust for quite a few years now and I've learned to use measurements less and less.
Learning about some 'traditional' methods of work can save a lot of problems for the average woodworker.
Some possibilities:
Work from a full-size plan- it won't take that long to draw (yes, with a pencil, not a computer). Posterboard aka Bristol board works well for smaller projects, or a chunk of 1/8 ply if you have some handy. It's cheaper if you can fix mistakes with a pencil.
Layout aka 'story' sticks
Cut your larger panels to measure, then mark the position of the 'minor' components on the panels, then cut to fit.
Assemble as you go, cut to fit.
Make temporary 'spacer blocks' from scrap to position pieces for assembly.
If I am doing an operation more than once, I start thinking about quick jigs and fixtures to avoid measurement errors. Drilling,routing jigs can save a lot of measurement.
Going directly from a cutting list to a pile of pieces is important if you are in a production environment, or producing flat-pack kits, but older techniques work well for one-off projects.
Cheers
John
No no no no no (I do feel strongly about this). Tape measures with both are an abomination - the measurement you want is always on the wrong edge or upside down. Or the markings are confusing and you have to stop and think about which means what. Or you take a quick measure, walk towards the saw muttering "51, 51" and get there only to say "Wait a minute: surely it was only about 20 inches".
Have several of both; work in one system at a time; and use measuring tools marked exclusively in that system.
That having been said, I admit to owning one tape measure and a couple of rulers marked in both Imperial and metric - they're kept in desk drawers upstairs, well away from the shop, and used for non-critical measurement only.
Regards.
Aengus
Re: measurements
I have an ancient 1st gen HP inkjet plotter a client gave me. I've more than once considered trying to get it up & running and printout full size plans on "vellum" for resale... involves resurrecting some old computers and figuring out how to talk to them thou.
dave
VictoriaGuy said:
I have an ancient 1st gen HP inkjet plotter a client gave me. I've more than once considered trying to get it up & running and printout full size plans on "vellum" for resale... involves resurrecting some old computers and figuring out how to talk to them thou.
dave
Brown wrapping paper comes in big rolls. A few sheets of posterboard would do it. And, where I live, I can get 4x8 sheets of cheap 1/8 ply aka 'doorskins' quite easily. I prefer the ply since I can use the edge to align a square more easily.chrisb said:John, a full size set of plans for Saburo/ Hiro / Sachiko would be over 6 ft tall by 18" wide.
Not the usual home workshop! And in the time it would take me to learn AutoCad, I could build all the audio equipment I would ever need. If you already have those skills and access to hitech equipment, though, it would be silly not to use them.
John
Re: Re: measurements
Good idea, Dave. Boat plans are available full size- from kayaks to 10m sailboats, for folks who don't want to learn lofting. So there would be a market for full-size speaker plans, I'd think.
Just transfer the corner locations to the panels by nail/awl through the pattern?
John
planet10 said:
Good idea, Dave. Boat plans are available full size- from kayaks to 10m sailboats, for folks who don't want to learn lofting. So there would be a market for full-size speaker plans, I'd think.
Just transfer the corner locations to the panels by nail/awl through the pattern?
John
VictoriaGuy said:
You're certainly right about the learning curve for AutoCAD - I'm far too old to learn that one - for over a decade I've been using an ancient (by today's standards) and very intuitive program 2D called Autosketch. (Release 2.1 circa 1995)
I originally learned this for quickie space planning for office and home furnishing layouts at work, and it does all I need, and will even run on my iMac at home in Parallels (rather limited support for print drivers, though
)
Resurrecting this old thread with exactly the same question...
Sounds like the OP found a source of 3/4 BBply in the right dimensions.
I'm having trouble finding it here in Calgary. Local lumber yards offer 5 x 5 foot sheets.
Home Depot has larger sheets, but it's non-Baltic Birch ply, and as described above, few plys to it, uneven, rough, voids. Looks like "carp."
Does anyone know of a source around, or who can deliver to Calgary? Or are there alternate materials more commonly available in > 6 ft lengths?
Thanks in advance fellows.
-Brenton
Sounds like the OP found a source of 3/4 BBply in the right dimensions.
I'm having trouble finding it here in Calgary. Local lumber yards offer 5 x 5 foot sheets.
Home Depot has larger sheets, but it's non-Baltic Birch ply, and as described above, few plys to it, uneven, rough, voids. Looks like "carp."
Does anyone know of a source around, or who can deliver to Calgary? Or are there alternate materials more commonly available in > 6 ft lengths?
Thanks in advance fellows.
-Brenton
Aengus: I couldn't agree more!
I personally never use a "combination tape" I need to be able to read across the blade--
Best, Don
for the (not?) so easily confused:
aka as the cumin or goin tape
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I can only agree 100% with Victoriaguy - John.
Go full size. Cut a side and draw everything out with a pencil.
The plywood nowadays is certainly not consistent in its thickness.
Use jigs and templates. I look at cut lists as a guide, a 1/2 mm here and a 1 mm there may not add up to much over 2 or 3 inches but build something a little larger and as Chris says "measure once and cut twice".
I grew up in the Imperial system and now can use metric as well comfortably.
I also grew up doing woodwork and metalwork in school, learned how to file metal and cut wood with hand tools accurately, no power drills, we used a brace for drilling and sandpaper for sanding. The only power tool I remember was the lathe. Cut dovetails with a back saw and coping saw. I have learned a lot more 30 plenty years later and am still learning. I feel sorry for the kids these days, if they used a pencil they could not sharpen it
One gem, whatever measuring device you use, use it consistently, iow don't use a tape measure and ruler for measuring, use one or the other, tape measures in particular are probably the largest offenders when it comes to inaccuracies.
Go full size. Cut a side and draw everything out with a pencil.
The plywood nowadays is certainly not consistent in its thickness.
Use jigs and templates. I look at cut lists as a guide, a 1/2 mm here and a 1 mm there may not add up to much over 2 or 3 inches but build something a little larger and as Chris says "measure once and cut twice".
I grew up in the Imperial system and now can use metric as well comfortably.
I also grew up doing woodwork and metalwork in school, learned how to file metal and cut wood with hand tools accurately, no power drills, we used a brace for drilling and sandpaper for sanding. The only power tool I remember was the lathe. Cut dovetails with a back saw and coping saw. I have learned a lot more 30 plenty years later and am still learning. I feel sorry for the kids these days, if they used a pencil they could not sharpen it
One gem, whatever measuring device you use, use it consistently, iow don't use a tape measure and ruler for measuring, use one or the other, tape measures in particular are probably the largest offenders when it comes to inaccuracies.
Andrew,
Could you offer a few more words about what you mean about tape measures and inaccuracies?
I'm about to embark on a set of Saburos (when I can get the wood), and ... I take it from your comment I shouldn't be relying on a tape measure for getting accurate measurments down?
What do you recommend? I seem to recall seeing some big honking metal rulers of the yard/metre length there in Home Depot...Is this something I need?
-Brenton
Could you offer a few more words about what you mean about tape measures and inaccuracies?
I'm about to embark on a set of Saburos (when I can get the wood), and ... I take it from your comment I shouldn't be relying on a tape measure for getting accurate measurments down?
What do you recommend? I seem to recall seeing some big honking metal rulers of the yard/metre length there in Home Depot...Is this something I need?
-Brenton
My previous build, a pair of Zigmahornets, turned out great.
Until my eagle eye girlfriend pointed out that the driver on one speaker is located about 1 inch lower than it is on the other.
Perhaps some of you know exactly how... bewildering it is to make such a gaf. I was so careful, I thought, in measuring many times before cutting.
And I was completely unaware of the error!
Until my eagle eye girlfriend pointed out that the driver on one speaker is located about 1 inch lower than it is on the other.
Perhaps some of you know exactly how... bewildering it is to make such a gaf. I was so careful, I thought, in measuring many times before cutting.
And I was completely unaware of the error!
Tape measures are made (marked) by ink rollers, the tape is then cut and installed into the casing. The inking is is where the problem begins (rollers). If you are going to use a tape I recommend something like a Johnson or if you can get it Tajima, both good quality.
Then you need to calibrate it. Take care of it as you would a square or blade, do not drop it, do not let the tape slide back into the case at full speed.
Here is a video
Tape Measure Tips - Fine Homebuilding Video with some really good information.
Then you need to calibrate it. Take care of it as you would a square or blade, do not drop it, do not let the tape slide back into the case at full speed.
Here is a video
Tape Measure Tips - Fine Homebuilding Video with some really good information.
Found Baltic Birch ply in 4 x 8 foot sheets:
PJ White Hardwoods Ltd.
They have branches in Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver and Victoria.
Now I won't have to "cut and paste" in order to get the lengths needed for the sides and backs.
...thought others might find this helpful.
PJ White Hardwoods Ltd.
They have branches in Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver and Victoria.
Now I won't have to "cut and paste" in order to get the lengths needed for the sides and backs.
...thought others might find this helpful.
is that "Euro-ply" (brokered out of US, but still I guess less miles traveled than Russian or Finnish ply)?
I was quoted $108 per sheet - that's almost twice the cost per square foot of the Russian product at $48 per 5x5 (trade pricing may be lower than "retail" )
Of course if the project is large enough and you can get by with a single 4x8 sheet, using 5x5s for the smaller parts, the cost will be average out. Certainly the time and materials for furniture grade finishing, and the drivers themselves will be more than the cost differential on a single sheet.
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