serenechaos said:
Well, 'speed' issues aside, the difference in efficiency is the main barrier to proper integration as far as I can tell. Maybe some variation on the LAB12 would work...but that doesn't go high enough...
Honestly the more I think about it, the more ideal the big BLH with an efficient driver topology is...
Regarding my amp concerns, the 166 is 2 db/1m less than the 206e, and I tend to listen to music fairly quiet, so...that's still non answer, I think I will ask the guy at decware.
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I just got done cutting all the pieces for the Sachiko. It is beginning to dawn on me how enormous these speakers are. I will post pictures with build progress as it happens.
Finally - one question - the compression chamber (if you would call it that) of the Sachiko is really close to the driver. Wouldn't this cause a lot of mid/hi reflection back into the cone? Should I try maybe doing that piece out of 1/4" masonite and making up the rest of the thickness in sound absorbent foam?
Humour.
Balm of the soul & all that kind of thing. Although being a luddite, mine is probably a wattle & daube kind of spirit. He hates me.
I seem to remember we discussed this before. As for the Harvey's, the design could be improved IMO (not taking anything away from what I gather is the excellent quality of the build you heard). No idea about the FLHs you heard -from what you say, sounds like they weren't all that well integrated?
n_martin said:
I wish I had that much of an ego.
As I mentioned before, I try never to recommend any of my boxes. People make of them what they will. Besides, I wouldn't know -I haven't heard them; probably never will, or any of my larger designs. I don't actually have anything at all to listen to music on at the moment, nor will I in the forseeable future.
A BLH is notionally limited to the sensitivity of the driver employed -remember, the horn is only working up to 300Hz. You've got 6+ octaves above that where it's not doing anything except helping attenuate some of the HF. 1 - 5w should be fine, although simplistically, the more clean power you can offer any speaker the better from the POV that you're not limiting the dynamic range with the amp & it becomes solely a transducer related matter. What constitutes clean power of course is a whole different can of worms.
I'd be wary marrying FLHs to anything other than FLHs, or perhaps a good sealed box or BR variation. FWIW, take a gander at the BD design stuff &, for a seriously OTT approach, Romy the Cat's. Take care with the latter -he holds us all in utter contempt, possibly with justification, so don't expect a non-opinionated read, but it doesn't change the fact it's a hell of an impressive setup.
I gather the Bottlehead amps are decent, although I'm a little wary of those miniture output transformers myself. That said, I know nothing of amp design, so YMMV.
Low pass filter chamber. The room is the CC of a BLH. Not really, it is assumed that it's damped you know!
Standard starting point is to line the top, rear & one sidewall of the chamber (keeping the throat clear, naturally) with 1/2in wool felt / carpet underlay or similar. Then tailor it to suit your own requirements from there. For the love of Heaven, don't use that foam -it's the acoustic equivalent of a vampire.Yeah, Call Steve Deckart (don't email, he doesn't get around to answereing for months sometimes), he's good to talk to.
Bottom line is a Zen will put out enough since you're more interested in sound quality than volume.
Might mention, that amp is kind of bass shy, not like a Vaughn Carina, but still a good value.
No, a Lab 12 doesn't go low enough, is more of a sub.
And, "sound is round;" sound waves are spherical.
Round will sound and integrate better than a square or rectangular box, w/ its reflections/standing waves bouncing back and forth off between the sides. If you must use straight sides, an even number is usually recommended.
And a straight horn will sound better than one with folds.
A straignt, round FLH can be built just as easily to raise efficiency of the driver used in that range.
Without the "confused" sound of a BLH, or the obvious time-delay problems.
See links provided.
You're looking @ over 110 db /w.
Bottom line is a Zen will put out enough since you're more interested in sound quality than volume.
Might mention, that amp is kind of bass shy, not like a Vaughn Carina, but still a good value.
No, a Lab 12 doesn't go low enough, is more of a sub.
And, "sound is round;" sound waves are spherical.
Round will sound and integrate better than a square or rectangular box, w/ its reflections/standing waves bouncing back and forth off between the sides. If you must use straight sides, an even number is usually recommended.
And a straight horn will sound better than one with folds.
A straignt, round FLH can be built just as easily to raise efficiency of the driver used in that range.
Without the "confused" sound of a BLH, or the obvious time-delay problems.
See links provided.
You're looking @ over 110 db /w.
Just to expand a little on the above, the internal standing wave analogy is fine assuming that they happen to occur within the operating BW of the design; if not, then by definition, they're not a subject of major concern. Agreed about the spherical wavefront; that's one of the reasons why Ron & I sometimes do cabinets with a curved terminus. Every little helps. As for front horns, personally. I favour the good old conical; arguably not as efficient, but the low distortion is worth the trade-off (IMO).
Time delay & back horns is an interesting one, as it's dependant upon the design & pathlength, &, to an extent, the individual. It bothers some people, it doesn't bother others. BLHs with a high[ish] upper corner frequency tend to be more suseptible (or 'confused', if you prefer) to those issues than others, along with other matters such as output combing, image stability etc. It's not universal though, so catagorically stating that it's universally a problem for all people in all situations is as erroneous as trying to explain the rules of cricket to a giraffe.
Time delay & back horns is an interesting one, as it's dependant upon the design & pathlength, &, to an extent, the individual. It bothers some people, it doesn't bother others. BLHs with a high[ish] upper corner frequency tend to be more suseptible (or 'confused', if you prefer) to those issues than others, along with other matters such as output combing, image stability etc. It's not universal though, so catagorically stating that it's universally a problem for all people in all situations is as erroneous as trying to explain the rules of cricket to a giraffe.
Who are you speaking to here? Sorry, we've got a couple of conversations going at once, so it's not clear...
Indeed. Perception necessarily differs according to the individual.
Giraffes sound like a tranny radio? And they can play cricket? 
You haven't said which 'it' you mean is obvious, but taking a stab in the dark, if it's delay-time in a BLH, yes, I have the same trouble too with many examples if they're running up a long way. That's one of the reasons I always make sure my cabs. have quite a low Fh. Still, plenty of people don't bat an eyelid even with designs running up substantially higher, so as always, YMMV. I don't presume to suggest their preference / hearing / whatever is somehow 'wrong.' Their ears, their choice, what works for them, works for them & as far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the matter -it's certainly not my place to try imposing my own views / preferences on them.
To N_Martin:
Have you heard of the German "Jericho horn"?
See for instance http://www.plasmatweeter.de/jericho.htm
A friend of mine built it some years ago. An excellent enclosure IMHO, clean and extended bass, great tonal balance etc.
Have you heard of the German "Jericho horn"?
See for instance http://www.plasmatweeter.de/jericho.htm
A friend of mine built it some years ago. An excellent enclosure IMHO, clean and extended bass, great tonal balance etc.
Well, they're both driver alignments designed to increase efficiency in separate parts of the frequency spectrum.
Efficiency is the key word here - I am more interested in efficiency than the lack of crossover...the absence of a crossover is nice but being able to use flea powered amps is really the ultimate goal.
Efficiency is the key word here - I am more interested in efficiency than the lack of crossover...the absence of a crossover is nice but being able to use flea powered amps is really the ultimate goal.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1761596#post1761596
That was with a 2w interstage coupled 45 amp running at about 70% output.
I assume, as you crave extremely low powered amps, that LF dynamic BW is not a matter you are overly concerned about. If you are, you either need a rethink on the amp front, or a 5 way front horn setup with compression drivers & active XO; at least 106db 1m/1w.
That was with a 2w interstage coupled 45 amp running at about 70% output.
I assume, as you crave extremely low powered amps, that LF dynamic BW is not a matter you are overly concerned about. If you are, you either need a rethink on the amp front, or a 5 way front horn setup with compression drivers & active XO; at least 106db 1m/1w.
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