BIB vs H-frame + FR bass - help me understand

freddi · 20th February 2009, 01:22 AM

I've heard nothing but good about BIB and that they they have clean ("spine shaking") output deep in the bass -- - for a fixed bulk vs higher cutoff BLH it would seem BIB would have less gain from ~40-100 or os -?. I don't have much experience in LF other than kludging Exemplar's Karlson with Altec tuned low with boost @~28Hz, Edgar's Monolith, Klipschorn and 21" Madison on open baffle and 9 ft t-lines with 10" - - I'm mainly used to higher cutoffs but with good power such as 15 and 18" couplers with slotted HF waveguide tube on top/inside or coax

how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle?. is there much perceptible"garble" with BIB?

theoretical tradeoff for fixed bulk

freddi · 26th February 2009, 08:22 PM

is there no one who's heard both BIB and FR + helper woofer to give opinions? - perhaps I should have mentioned vocals too

Godzilla · 26th February 2009, 09:00 PM

>>> how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle?

The H-frames using Alpha 15s subjectively go lower and much louder than my BIBs using the 6.5" Fostex 165k. I will listen more critically when i get my amp back from repair but I think the BIBs go low in tone while the H-frames go lower and with more impact.

If a 10 or 12 inch driver were used in a BIB it might rival the H-frames but the 6.5 inchers do not.

Godzilla

Nelson Pass · 26th February 2009, 09:39 PM

I have heard good music out of both types. Spine shaking is not
a phenomenon associated with either.

freddi · 26th February 2009, 10:23 PM

when one said a 8.5" BIB was "spine-shaking" - I don't buy that vs what I can get from an 18" + slotted HF pipe in a karlson type with 300W peak on a drum would compare for startle-factor - Silver Iris would move quite a bit more and do quite a bit less on punch factor. - that said I listened most of the day to a Semprini 12" with no baffle to opera (Del Monaco, Kozlovsky) on YouTube and was happy :^) I miss an A40 I had back around 1982...

boudy · 26th February 2009, 10:38 PM

BIB's with the 8" 206ESR's in one room that required that the speakers go against the wall to fit. These go plenty deep but I also apply EQ with a DEQ2496 (SB3 -> DEQ - > DAC -> AMP). These work great in the big room.

My desk is situated in the middle of my office so I built desktop OB's. Currently using either JX92S or F120A with the Goldwood 8028 woofer. Biamped with active XO (dcx2496).

I also built OB's for my GF's bedroom. FR125S with two 8028 per side for a narrow baffle, passive XO. These are located a few feet from the back wall.

All of these speakers sound great! I know that helps alot.

If you can situate the speakers sufficiently far from the back wall I'd go with one of the MJK OB designs. If the speakers need to be against a wall or in corners then go BIB with a big driver!

freddi · 26th February 2009, 10:52 PM

cool - didn't know about that Goldwood - wonder if this is right? - http://www.itcelectronics.com/produc...oducts_id=1818

FWIW I could team X21 Madison with ~40Hz qts ~0.7 (way outta spec) PV18 - might not help

Scottmoose · 26th February 2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddi
when one said a 8.5" BIB was "spine-shaking" - I don't buy that vs what I can get from an 18" + slotted HF pipe in a karlson type with 300W peak on a drum would compare for startle-factor

I suspect these things are relative...

It's hardly comparing like with like.

boudy · 26th February 2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddi
cool - didn't know about that Goldwood - wonder if this is right? - http://www.itcelectronics.com/produc...oducts_id=1818

FWIW I could team X21 Madison with ~40Hz qts ~0.7 (way outta spec) PV18 - might not help

No that's not right, the 8028 is 8":

8028 at PE

Kensai · 27th February 2009, 04:40 PM

So, finally someone who admits to working with the 8028. I've been wanting to know how these guys sound for close to 5 years now. So just using them as bass reinforcement for FRs, with their own amp and adjustable crossover, on OB, how do they sound? Just how deep and loud can they manage without distortion given the two different setups you have them in (single vs paired drivers)? The world (or at least I, out in the world) want to know.

Kensai

20th February 2009, 01:22 AM	#1
freddi diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	BIB vs H-frame + FR bass - help me understand I've heard nothing but good about BIB and that they they have clean ("spine shaking") output deep in the bass -- - for a fixed bulk vs higher cutoff BLH it would seem BIB would have less gain from ~40-100 or os -?. I don't have much experience in LF other than kludging Exemplar's Karlson with Altec tuned low with boost @~28Hz, Edgar's Monolith, Klipschorn and 21" Madison on open baffle and 9 ft t-lines with 10" - - I'm mainly used to higher cutoffs but with good power such as 15 and 18" couplers with slotted HF waveguide tube on top/inside or coax how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle?. is there much perceptible"garble" with BIB? theoretical tradeoff for fixed bulk

26th February 2009, 10:38 PM	#6
boudy diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central MA	I have both BIB and OB BIB's with the 8" 206ESR's in one room that required that the speakers go against the wall to fit. These go plenty deep but I also apply EQ with a DEQ2496 (SB3 -> DEQ - > DAC -> AMP). These work great in the big room. My desk is situated in the middle of my office so I built desktop OB's. Currently using either JX92S or F120A with the Goldwood 8028 woofer. Biamped with active XO (dcx2496). I also built OB's for my GF's bedroom. FR125S with two 8028 per side for a narrow baffle, passive XO. These are located a few feet from the back wall. All of these speakers sound great! I know that helps alot. If you can situate the speakers sufficiently far from the back wall I'd go with one of the MJK OB designs. If the speakers need to be against a wall or in corners then go BIB with a big driver!

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26th February 2009, 08:22 PM	#2
freddi diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	is there no one who's heard both BIB and FR + helper woofer to give opinions? - perhaps I should have mentioned vocals too

26th February 2009, 09:00 PM	#3
Godzilla diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New York	>>> how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle? The H-frames using Alpha 15s subjectively go lower and much louder than my BIBs using the 6.5" Fostex 165k. I will listen more critically when i get my amp back from repair but I think the BIBs go low in tone while the H-frames go lower and with more impact. If a 10 or 12 inch driver were used in a BIB it might rival the H-frames but the 6.5 inchers do not. Godzilla

26th February 2009, 09:39 PM	#4
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	I have heard good music out of both types. Spine shaking is not a phenomenon associated with either.

26th February 2009, 10:23 PM	#5
freddi diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	when one said a 8.5" BIB was "spine-shaking" - I don't buy that vs what I can get from an 18" + slotted HF pipe in a karlson type with 300W peak on a drum would compare for startle-factor - Silver Iris would move quite a bit more and do quite a bit less on punch factor. - that said I listened most of the day to a Semprini 12" with no baffle to opera (Del Monaco, Kozlovsky) on YouTube and was happy :^) I miss an A40 I had back around 1982...

26th February 2009, 10:52 PM	#7
freddi diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	cool - didn't know about that Goldwood - wonder if this is right? - http://www.itcelectronics.com/produc...oducts_id=1818 FWIW I could team X21 Madison with ~40Hz qts ~0.7 (way outta spec) PV18 - might not help

27th February 2009, 04:40 PM	#10
Kensai diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Louis	So, finally someone who admits to working with the 8028. I've been wanting to know how these guys sound for close to 5 years now. So just using them as bass reinforcement for FRs, with their own amp and adjustable crossover, on OB, how do they sound? Just how deep and loud can they manage without distortion given the two different setups you have them in (single vs paired drivers)? The world (or at least I, out in the world) want to know. Kensai