I've heard nothing but good about BIB and that they they have clean ("spine shaking") output deep in the bass -- - for a fixed bulk vs higher cutoff BLH it would seem BIB would have less gain from ~40-100 or os -?. I don't have much experience in LF other than kludging Exemplar's Karlson with Altec tuned low with boost @~28Hz, Edgar's Monolith, Klipschorn and 21" Madison on open baffle and 9 ft t-lines with 10" - - I'm mainly used to higher cutoffs but with good power such as 15 and 18" couplers with slotted HF waveguide tube on top/inside or coax
how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle?. is there much perceptible"garble" with BIB?
theoretical tradeoff for fixed bulk
how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle?. is there much perceptible"garble" with BIB?
theoretical tradeoff for fixed bulk
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>>> how clean are 6.5" and 8" BIB in the bass vs say H-frame 15 or 18 plus fullrange on open baffle?
The H-frames using Alpha 15s subjectively go lower and much louder than my BIBs using the 6.5" Fostex 165k. I will listen more critically when i get my amp back from repair but I think the BIBs go low in tone while the H-frames go lower and with more impact.
If a 10 or 12 inch driver were used in a BIB it might rival the H-frames but the 6.5 inchers do not.
Godzilla
The H-frames using Alpha 15s subjectively go lower and much louder than my BIBs using the 6.5" Fostex 165k. I will listen more critically when i get my amp back from repair but I think the BIBs go low in tone while the H-frames go lower and with more impact.
If a 10 or 12 inch driver were used in a BIB it might rival the H-frames but the 6.5 inchers do not.
Godzilla
when one said a 8.5" BIB was "spine-shaking" - I don't buy that vs what I can get from an 18" + slotted HF pipe in a karlson type with 300W peak on a drum would compare for startle-factor - Silver Iris would move quite a bit more and do quite a bit less on punch factor. - that said I listened most of the day to a Semprini 12" with no baffle to opera (Del Monaco, Kozlovsky) on YouTube and was happy :^) I miss an A40 I had back around 1982...
I have both BIB and OB
BIB's with the 8" 206ESR's in one room that required that the speakers go against the wall to fit. These go plenty deep but I also apply EQ with a DEQ2496 (SB3 -> DEQ - > DAC -> AMP). These work great in the big room.
My desk is situated in the middle of my office so I built desktop OB's. Currently using either JX92S or F120A with the Goldwood 8028 woofer. Biamped with active XO (dcx2496).
I also built OB's for my GF's bedroom. FR125S with two 8028 per side for a narrow baffle, passive XO. These are located a few feet from the back wall.
All of these speakers sound great! I know that helps alot.
If you can situate the speakers sufficiently far from the back wall I'd go with one of the MJK OB designs. If the speakers need to be against a wall or in corners then go BIB with a big driver!
BIB's with the 8" 206ESR's in one room that required that the speakers go against the wall to fit. These go plenty deep but I also apply EQ with a DEQ2496 (SB3 -> DEQ - > DAC -> AMP). These work great in the big room.
My desk is situated in the middle of my office so I built desktop OB's. Currently using either JX92S or F120A with the Goldwood 8028 woofer. Biamped with active XO (dcx2496).
I also built OB's for my GF's bedroom. FR125S with two 8028 per side for a narrow baffle, passive XO. These are located a few feet from the back wall.
All of these speakers sound great! I know that helps alot.
If you can situate the speakers sufficiently far from the back wall I'd go with one of the MJK OB designs. If the speakers need to be against a wall or in corners then go BIB with a big driver!
cool - didn't know about that Goldwood - wonder if this is right? - http://www.itcelectronics.com/product_info.php?products_id=1818
FWIW I could team X21 Madison with ~40Hz qts ~0.7 (way outta spec) PV18 - might not help
FWIW I could team X21 Madison with ~40Hz qts ~0.7 (way outta spec) PV18 - might not help
So, finally someone who admits to working with the 8028. I've been wanting to know how these guys sound for close to 5 years now. So just using them as bass reinforcement for FRs, with their own amp and adjustable crossover, on OB, how do they sound? Just how deep and loud can they manage without distortion given the two different setups you have them in (single vs paired drivers)? The world (or at least I, out in the world) want to know. 
Kensai
Kensai
Goldwood 8028
These woofers are working out great for my desktop OB application. The bass seems plenty deep enough, though I think that the vibrations induced through the desk increase the perception of bass. The speakers have about 3' separation.
These speakers aren't as effective in the GF's floorstanders. The bass isn't all that deep, probably due in part to the narrow baffle. These speakers are part of her HT system with a separate subwoofer so it isn't as critical.
In both cases they go plenty loud cleanly but the space is relatively small.
Overall I think they're fine for near-field OB application but would go with 15" or 18" woofers for floorstanding OB where you want room-filling bass.
These woofers are working out great for my desktop OB application. The bass seems plenty deep enough, though I think that the vibrations induced through the desk increase the perception of bass. The speakers have about 3' separation.
These speakers aren't as effective in the GF's floorstanders. The bass isn't all that deep, probably due in part to the narrow baffle. These speakers are part of her HT system with a separate subwoofer so it isn't as critical.
In both cases they go plenty loud cleanly but the space is relatively small.
Overall I think they're fine for near-field OB application but would go with 15" or 18" woofers for floorstanding OB where you want room-filling bass.
Thanks, boudy. Alot of the design concepts I have would require multiples, sometimes very large multiples of drivers for the bottom, end, so it would be useful in a cost sense if these Goldwoods could be used.
Personally, right now, I'm using a single Dayton RS-225-8 on each side to handle the bottom under a Dayton RS-100-8 (those little fullrangers are my favorite driver so far, and on the lower end of cost compared to Fostex or even Tang Band of similar size and/or performance). I'm using the Dayton APA150 amp that Zilla talks about to basically act like a stereo sub amp with adjustable crossover to drive the 8"ers, and I'm using a Panasonic XR-57 receiver with the mains set to small and XO freq to 150 to drive the fullrangers. They're on very small baffles on my desktop and nearfield, they sound incredible with can produce almost more bass than I can handle. Of course, the bass rolls off quite quickly as you move away from the desk. I can get decent enough bass to the bulk of the finished basement (like for when I workout), but the bathroom at the far end is nearly bass free (its only 20' away). Not a robust generalized solution, especially not for anything more than a small room or a fairly short listening distance, but for my application its perfect because I can actually crank it to some serious levels and its not audible in the living room directly over my head (of course the living room system is thunderous if its playing the wrong material while I'm downstairs trying to work ;-p).
Anyway, love OB and Dayton Reference Series drivers, but who can afford RS drivers, especially in multiples per side for all your projects?
Thanks,
Kensai
Personally, right now, I'm using a single Dayton RS-225-8 on each side to handle the bottom under a Dayton RS-100-8 (those little fullrangers are my favorite driver so far, and on the lower end of cost compared to Fostex or even Tang Band of similar size and/or performance). I'm using the Dayton APA150 amp that Zilla talks about to basically act like a stereo sub amp with adjustable crossover to drive the 8"ers, and I'm using a Panasonic XR-57 receiver with the mains set to small and XO freq to 150 to drive the fullrangers. They're on very small baffles on my desktop and nearfield, they sound incredible with can produce almost more bass than I can handle. Of course, the bass rolls off quite quickly as you move away from the desk. I can get decent enough bass to the bulk of the finished basement (like for when I workout), but the bathroom at the far end is nearly bass free (its only 20' away). Not a robust generalized solution, especially not for anything more than a small room or a fairly short listening distance, but for my application its perfect because I can actually crank it to some serious levels and its not audible in the living room directly over my head (of course the living room system is thunderous if its playing the wrong material while I'm downstairs trying to work ;-p).
Anyway, love OB and Dayton Reference Series drivers, but who can afford RS drivers, especially in multiples per side for all your projects?
Thanks,
Kensai
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