Hey Dave hows the FF85K OB at 400hz.....? - diyAudio
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Old 25th January 2009, 07:36 AM   #1
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Default Hey Dave hows the FF85K OB at 400hz.....?

I have a design going currently and I have a silver flute 5" midbass that will be crossed at 400Hz to a FF85K which will be mounted open baffle above the 5" midbass (which will be a ported slot loaded design). I tried the FF85K in the suggested configurations and they were really only good to 200hz give or take but had zero impact below that, understandably it is only really a 3" driver, but the little b-u-g-g-e-r does everything really really good above that.

I guess my question to you or anyone with experience with the FF85K is.... How does this driver perform as a wide range driver on open baffle crossed around my suggested point?

I understand this isn't a fullrange question but to be honest what the FF85K does it does very well and I'd like to be able to mearly fill in what they cant fill in the lower ocatves with a complimentary bass driver. The reason I want to cross at 400 is really due more to crossover expense more tha anything, crossing at 200hz would be optimal but at the prices for caps that size I'd be putting a million bucks into a Pinto LOL....

So anyone with experince with this driver in this sort of design (FAST DESIGN) I'd appreciate the input before I start ripping ply.

Thanks in advance folks, Peace.
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Old 25th January 2009, 09:08 AM   #2
hm is offline hm  Europe
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Hallo,

i tested the 85 in a small SAT horn, FLUTE,

IMO the Omnes Audio 3" sounds better.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 25th January 2009, 01:55 PM   #3
chops is offline chops  United States
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Default Re: Hey Dave hows the FF85K OB at 400hz.....?

Quote:
Originally posted by speakrsrfun
I have a design going currently and I have a silver flute 5" midbass that will be crossed at 400Hz to a FF85K which will be mounted open baffle above the 5" midbass (which will be a ported slot loaded design). I tried the FF85K in the suggested configurations and they were really only good to 200hz give or take but had zero impact below that, understandably it is only really a 3" driver, but the little b-u-g-g-e-r does everything really really good above that.

I guess my question to you or anyone with experience with the FF85K is.... How does this driver perform as a wide range driver on open baffle crossed around my suggested point?

I understand this isn't a fullrange question but to be honest what the FF85K does it does very well and I'd like to be able to mearly fill in what they cant fill in the lower ocatves with a complimentary bass driver. The reason I want to cross at 400 is really due more to crossover expense more tha anything, crossing at 200hz would be optimal but at the prices for caps that size I'd be putting a million bucks into a Pinto LOL....

So anyone with experince with this driver in this sort of design (FAST DESIGN) I'd appreciate the input before I start ripping ply.

Thanks in advance folks, Peace.

First off, never mind post #2 since it doesn't even come close to answering your questions and the fact you already have the drivers. Anywho...




I don't see why it would be a problem having your FF85K's on OB's. I think most drivers perform perfectly well on OB's. It's only when you get down into the bass area (below 150Hz or so) where you have to consider Qts, Xmax, power handling, etc, etc for a proper match for OB's. With your 85K in mind, as long as the baffle is wide enough to support midbass down to 150Hz or so, you should be fine.

The one thing I would seriously consider though is trying to get that crossover frequency down closer to 200Hz if you can. The reason being that at 400Hz, you're getting well within the human vocal range, both male and female. When you throw a crossover point right in the middle of the vocal range like that, if it's not properly designed, you can have major phase/timing issues which will cause unstable imaging, shifting side to side. It can also make voices sound detached, meaning that it sounds like the sound coming from the singer's mouth is completely detached from their body. This typically gives vocals a nasally sound or a heavy, chesty sound, all of which are unnatural.

I haven't priced out crossover components lately, but I can't imagine parts for a 200Hz crossover point to be that much more expensive to a 400Hz crossover point. And please keep in mind, these little Fostex drivers tend to react quite differently with better quality components. I'm not saying you have to dump $100 bucks on air core inductors and another $100 on a couple of capacitors and resistors, but I certainly wouldn't go for the cheapest stuff either. Solen makes some good quality components that sound really good, and at a really good price. There's a lot of major hifi companies out there that offer "upgrade paths" to their existing products using these vary Solen parts.

Anyway, just my 2 pennies.
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Old 25th January 2009, 04:23 PM   #4
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The very 1st time we tried FF85KeN (i still haven't listened to a stock set (i do havea pair) it was in a small MB set on top of a par of Fostex 9". We were quite stunned by how good it is. We didn't use any XO and ran it at modest levels.

We have the parts (well soon -- i have 20 FF85K half-way thru the mod proces -- to put into an MJK passive OB.

In the uFonken we get bass down to ~110-125 Hz.

In Tysen we XO actively at 333 Hz.

I have 4 of the 5" SilverFlutes for an MTM -- i figure you need 2 per side to avoid padding down the FF85.

I'd suggest scaring up another amp and bi-amp. Tysen uses a PLLXO (we've also done a buffered PLLXO)

dave
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Old 25th January 2009, 09:37 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
The very 1st time we tried FF85KeN (i still haven't listened to a stock set (i do havea pair) it was in a small MB set on top of a par of Fostex 9". We were quite stunned by how good it is. We didn't use any XO and ran it at modest levels.

We havethe parts (well soon -- i have 20 FF96l half-ay thru thr mod proces -- to put into an MJK passive OB.

In the uFonken we get bass down to ~110-125 Hz.

In Tysen we XO actively at 333 Hz.

I have 4 of the 5" SilverFlutes for an MTM -- i figure you need 2 per side to avoid padding down the FF85.

I'd suggest scaring up another amp and bi-amp. Tysen uses a PLLXO (we've also done a buffered PLLXO)

dave

there Dave goes again, typing in the dark, obviously he means 20 FF85K

thanks for your input Horst? but I think yes, to categorize this little b-u-g-g-e-r as under-appreciated would be an understatement in itself, and there's probably more applications awaiting
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Old 25th January 2009, 10:59 PM   #6
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Why not MTM with 3 x FF85K, maybe crossed around 800hz, "6db/6db"...I would still use a woofer "helper" though

Is it fullrange ? well, it uses one...I have similar in mind with 4" TB

I posted it over at "Loudspeaker" forum, not to offend...well, it does use FR drivers, so here it is
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Old 26th January 2009, 12:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by hm
IMO the Omnes Audio 3" sounds better.
would that be the BB 3.01?

(sorry if we're "not allowed" to pay attention to that post, but if a > 30 EUR driver sounds even better than an FF85K, it might be worth checking out...)

-I don't know how many drivers you've tried on OBs, but my experience doesn't mirror yours, they haven't all sounded/performed the same, high passed or not ...

-200Hz is in alto vocal range; middle c is like 261.63...

- totaly agree about crossover components affecting sound quality.
i'd call solen's kinda middle road though.
i used them for dialing a crossover in; just replaced some with better caps & you can hear the difference...
smoother top...
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Old 26th January 2009, 12:28 AM   #8
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by serenechaos


sorry if we're "not allowed" to pay attention to that post


Dont understand
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Old 26th January 2009, 12:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: Re: Hey Dave hows the FF85K OB at 400hz.....?

Quote:
Originally posted by chops


First off, never mind post #2

it was a joke.
and somewhat practical...
(a good, cheap driver cost less than good crossover components.)

ya know, never mind post #2!
but, but, but...
guess it wasn't funny
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Old 26th January 2009, 03:14 AM   #10
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Hi Robert, I laughed!

If I had more time, I would investigate Horst's cabs. Reading his web site, it seems that each one has been undertaken as a formal study/solution of a particular problem. It seems like a very classical approach.

Unfortunately, like you Robert, little by little I've been drifting away from BLH's. I confess I was drawn to them because of the intellectual and aesthetic aspects. They are enigmatic, and they look cool. Now I am wondering if my judgment was clouded. Just being honest here. I'm unsure at this point.
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