V8 Fonken design ? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th January 2009, 01:59 AM   #1
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Bigun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Blog Entries: 2
Default V8 Fonken design ?

Well, those of you familiar with the great Fonken family of designs from planet10 will recognize this design - it's a 'nod' to Dave for sure

And if Dave has time to pass comment I'd be grateful - I've tried to produce a design with the minimum possible width and depth for a traditional Fonken cabinet as this better meets the constraints I face for in-room HT installation.
Attached Images
File Type: gif v8fonken.gif (50.7 KB, 1081 views)
__________________
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." Robert M Pirsig.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2009, 05:12 AM   #2
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
:^)

Turning the box sideways without moving the champhers might produce some weird results...

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2009, 08:02 PM   #3
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Bigun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Blog Entries: 2
Hi Dave,

Can you say why the chamfers would be a problem ?

Even with my squashing the depth down from the regular Fonken I'm thinking it's probably unsuitable for horizontal mounting, there's simply too much weight to cantilever to put this on a wall and I'm not sure that the appearance of this design works so well horizontally. I'm going to play with this a bit more, but would love your thoughts on whether the ports would work if they were folded as in: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...55#post1722155 ? - after all the fancying around I'll probably do a simple box based on this if you think it's a go.

I have gone back to the Fonken-tuned floorstander as it is a shallower design. I'd really like to know a bit more about the port design. The cross section of the port is not nearly as 'thin' as the regular Fonken so it won't have the same level of 'resistance'. I assume this is because you were limited by the width of box. I would like to know if you think it's worth trying to accommodate a port that is thinner ? The attached drawing shows one way that I can see for doing this and at the same time I need to move the port to the front to allow wall mounting. Do you think this has a chance of working (no doubt you have built and tried many different configurations) ??

don't pay too much attention to the curved front, it was a thought experiment as you say and it could just as easily be flat. I do think it can be made curved but that's not the point - still trying to understand the consequences of tweaking your designs to suit my application.
Attached Images
File Type: gif htfonken.gif (42.3 KB, 839 views)
__________________
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." Robert M Pirsig.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2009, 09:23 PM   #4
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Gareth - I'll let Dave answer most of your "technical" questions, but in the meantime, I'll offer the opinion that any potential benefits of curved baffles would be offset by the complications of fabrication of enclosures of the aspect ratio of the Fonken series, and most specifically, the mounting of the driver .

It would certainly not be impossible, but I think would definitely add a degree of difficulty to the build, particularly as your drawing appears to imply a recessed, flush mounting.
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2009, 09:28 PM   #5
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigun
Can you say why the chamfers would be a problem ?
They are best all the way round the box, but if you are only doing 2 they should be on the sides....

As to whether tihe idea in the 1st post would work... in the Fonken167 we scored big time...

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
but would love your thoughts on whether the ports would work if they were folded as in: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...55#post1722155
I don't see any ports at all in that picture.

Quote:
I have gone back to the Fonken-tuned floorstander as it is a shallower design. I'd really like to know a bit more about the port design.
The FS is probably the most compromised sonically (but it is no slouch -- we listened to a pair quite extensively yesterday (with FE127eN)). To keep a tall skinny box like that from becoming too much of a TL the vent needs to open up near the middle. To get the bass reinforcement of the port, it needs to exit at or near the floor (and or wall), to make it simple you want only one.

You could add a 2nd port and half the depth and end up with something interesting.

Quote:
(no doubt you have built and tried many different configurations) ??
Thot of many, drew many of those (you variation included), released a fraction. You need to drop by and look over my shoulder while i flip thru the variations in my CAD SW.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2009, 10:16 PM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
a few more personal observations / musings re the dimensions/location of slots and bevels

The array of port slots flanking the driver is for me an aesthetic thing - on the FE127E design, the enclosure is small enough that there's not much choice as to location, but on the FE167, it just "felt right" to arrange as shown. In fact, I would have been inclined to centre the driver in the slot array, but to maintain the driver's distance from the floor, that would have necessitated an ungainly additional increase in overall height - and as you'll notice from the fittings in the photo, these will usually have grille covers installed.

Now for the "musing" - it's my intuition that the ports integrate more cohesively when surrounding the main driver as closely as the enclosure dimensions allow.

Regarding the bevels, and baffle width - in my listening experience with the Milevas, another FE127E design which have a very wide/ shallow aspect ratio ( my own pair have a minor, mostly decorative bevel to the vertical edges), the depth of soundstage and imaging specificity suffers somewhat in comparison to any of the horizontally narrow Fonkens - the Prime clearly being the best of the group in this regard.

While typing this post, I briefly repeated an experiment we did in fact conduct a while back - I rotated my stand mounted Fonkens to lie on their sides (i.e. ports horizontal). The change in centre of driver from the floor is only a couple of inches difference, but the overall vertical component of the soundstage was noticeably diminished.

Disclosure: the front baffles and bevel panels of my current pair of Fonkens have been EnABLed ( by Bud ) , and the Milevas are not (yet?)
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2009, 11:43 PM   #7
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Bigun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Blog Entries: 2
Dave, that Fonken 167 looks really nice ! - the two sets of 4 ports looks just right (those on the right look like they go all the way through the cabinet), the whole unit has the 'right' proportions - has the plan for this been posted yet, I'd love to see it ? I can see what Chris means too here about the position of the driver amongst the ports.

The more I look the more I see that I simply don't like centre speakers. Chris - your observations indicate further compromises in performance. Like the majority on this forum, I'm more of a stereo guy myself. And horizontal speakers don't look 'right'. Of course, who said it had to be horizontal, I don't see any reason why I can't use another vertical speaker so long as it doesn't obstruct the screen - and this should be within my control easy enough.

So, With three floor mounted speakers I can ignore the tradeoffs of going with wall mounting shallow boxes (except the rear surrounds where I don't care as much).

The folded ports question - I referenced the wrong post, let me try again: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...89#post1718789

Interesting thought about eNable, I'm wondering how much further benefit could be gotten from a Fonken baffle, given that it is heavily chamfered anyway ?

designing and learning has the danger of being more fun that building my speakers







__________________
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." Robert M Pirsig.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2009, 12:08 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
raypalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Burlington
where can I find plans/specs for the fonken167?
__________________
Wherever you go there you are.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2009, 02:47 AM   #9
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigun
that Fonken 167 looks really nice ! - the two sets of 4 ports looks just right (those on the right look like they go all the way through the cabinet), the whole unit has the 'right' proportions - has the plan for this been posted yet,
Quote:
Originally posted by raypalmer
where can I find plans/specs for the fonken167?
Eventually fullly detailed plans will be available by donation, For now i'm looking for some people to be beta builder to help me get the plans to that point.

Email me.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2009, 02:49 AM   #10
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigun
The more I look the more I see that I simply don't like centre speakers. Chris - your observations indicate further compromises in performance. Like the majority on this forum, I'm more of a stereo guy myself. And horizontal speakers don't look 'right'. Of course, who said it had to be horizontal, I don't see any reason why I can't use another vertical speaker so long as it doesn't obstruct the screen - and this should be within my control easy enough.
As long as you don't have anyway sitting way out of the sweet spot, i figure the best centre channel is a virtual centre channel.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The first Wall Fonken?? JeremyB Full Range 14 19th January 2009 01:13 AM
Fonken-- my 4th build Jim Shearer Full Range 47 13th September 2008 06:23 AM
fonken build mantisory Full Range 16 26th August 2008 04:39 AM
Fonken questions jayme Full Range 2 16th October 2007 11:27 PM
Fonken Questions widman Full Range 0 23rd August 2006 12:08 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:26 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2