Just out of interest, anyone know much about it?
Looks like a high end competitor for Jordan/Bandor... ($170/ea)
http://www.audience-av.com/press_releases/press_releases.php
used in these speakers -
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Looks like a high end competitor for Jordan/Bandor... ($170/ea)
http://www.audience-av.com/press_releases/press_releases.php
used in these speakers -
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I get severe combing with my dual 4" tang band bamboo speaker.
I sit 12' away, get your ear 3" above sweet spot and highs start fading.
Those audience speakers are beautiful though............
I'd like to see some reviews...................
Since 1 driver has 13cm2, it would take 8 of them to move the same area as my dual 4" tang band bamboos, or 16 of them to move as much air as an 8" driver..............
(from clairaudient site) "The 50 mm drivers are made of hand spun aluminum alloy. The total moving mass of each driver is 1.5 grams."
LSA8 (8 driver) = $21k pair (us)
LSA16 = $35k pair (us)
Um, any baffle step ???????????????
"Positive Feedback Online/Greg Weaver - THE Show '08 Report
"The boys from Audience, John McDonald, Roger Sheker, and Dan (sorry, never caught the last name) were in rare form with a room that looked as gorgeous as it sounded. Pairing with the Navison $21,800/pr NVS-211PSE amps with wooden panels that serendipitously matched the finish on their new ClairAudient cabinets, the NVS- 211PSE is a parallel, single ended triode monoblock (based on the 211 power tube) serving up 40-watts of class A power.
The $22,000 Audience ClairAudient Line Source Array 8 uses eight Bandor 50 drivers (2" diameter) per side in a crossover-less line source. Highly efficient (94dB), the LSA 8 is said to be ruler flat from 70Hz to 22kHz. Paired with the $7000 ClairAudient 12 subwoofer, this system was able to produce some of the most glorious midrange I've ever heard. Space was reach-out-and-touch real, micro dynamic events were breath taking, and the overall tonal balance was scary. Though I would have liked to hear them with a little more power to see how these thoroughbreds handled dynamics and life-like orchestral crescendos, I have to hand it to them; they have brought this speaker to exquisite fruition. A must hear, in my opinion."
and
"THE Show '08 Report by Jim Merod
No room at CES this year sounded better than the Audience set up. No room sounded as sonically accurate, as emotionally and aesthetically beguiling, as musically truthful and flat out startling with dynamic rightness of weight and timbre—as melodically, angelically charismatic. "
Someone needs to build a 4 mini array of either..........
2" peerless 830970 (anodized aluminum) 1.5 gram on sale $14.25
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8267
or
2" Tang band w2-803sm (poly) 1 gram $14.83 in 4+
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-805
or maybe
2"x3" tang band poly (1.53 gram) $23.07 in 4+
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-830
maybe an 8 array..........
I'd imagine it would need eq to add some highs if one stock driver measures flat. Maybe this newer driver has a rising response like the small jordan 2" that really helps offset combing............
Norman
I sit 12' away, get your ear 3" above sweet spot and highs start fading.
Those audience speakers are beautiful though............
I'd like to see some reviews...................
Since 1 driver has 13cm2, it would take 8 of them to move the same area as my dual 4" tang band bamboos, or 16 of them to move as much air as an 8" driver..............
(from clairaudient site) "The 50 mm drivers are made of hand spun aluminum alloy. The total moving mass of each driver is 1.5 grams."
LSA8 (8 driver) = $21k pair (us)
LSA16 = $35k pair (us)
Um, any baffle step ???????????????
"Positive Feedback Online/Greg Weaver - THE Show '08 Report
"The boys from Audience, John McDonald, Roger Sheker, and Dan (sorry, never caught the last name) were in rare form with a room that looked as gorgeous as it sounded. Pairing with the Navison $21,800/pr NVS-211PSE amps with wooden panels that serendipitously matched the finish on their new ClairAudient cabinets, the NVS- 211PSE is a parallel, single ended triode monoblock (based on the 211 power tube) serving up 40-watts of class A power.
The $22,000 Audience ClairAudient Line Source Array 8 uses eight Bandor 50 drivers (2" diameter) per side in a crossover-less line source. Highly efficient (94dB), the LSA 8 is said to be ruler flat from 70Hz to 22kHz. Paired with the $7000 ClairAudient 12 subwoofer, this system was able to produce some of the most glorious midrange I've ever heard. Space was reach-out-and-touch real, micro dynamic events were breath taking, and the overall tonal balance was scary. Though I would have liked to hear them with a little more power to see how these thoroughbreds handled dynamics and life-like orchestral crescendos, I have to hand it to them; they have brought this speaker to exquisite fruition. A must hear, in my opinion."
and
"THE Show '08 Report by Jim Merod
No room at CES this year sounded better than the Audience set up. No room sounded as sonically accurate, as emotionally and aesthetically beguiling, as musically truthful and flat out startling with dynamic rightness of weight and timbre—as melodically, angelically charismatic. "
Someone needs to build a 4 mini array of either..........
2" peerless 830970 (anodized aluminum) 1.5 gram on sale $14.25
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8267
or
2" Tang band w2-803sm (poly) 1 gram $14.83 in 4+
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-805
or maybe
2"x3" tang band poly (1.53 gram) $23.07 in 4+
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-830
maybe an 8 array..........
I'd imagine it would need eq to add some highs if one stock driver measures flat. Maybe this newer driver has a rising response like the small jordan 2" that really helps offset combing............
Norman
From that link you had listed..........
"San Marcos, CA, January 19, 2009 – Audience, LLC, an award-winning designer and manufacturer of high and ultra high resolution audio system products, today announced the release of a 3” full range loudspeaker driver. The Audience A3 is a breakthrough full range loudspeaker driver design comprised of a patented motor structure, patent-pending suspension and patent pending basket. The A3 has an exceptionally flat response from 40Hz to 22Khz, and -20 at 20Hz with very high power handling and dynamic range. The A3 is built like a high power sub woofer
driver using a large neodymium motor structure, big voice coil and suspension venting. The A3 is ultra responsive at 2.5 grams total moving mass providing state of the art resolution and dynamic range. The A3 sports 12mm of usable excursion with less than 1 dB compression at levels up to 95 dB SPL. The A3 is currently available in 16ohm and soon to be available in 4ohm and 8ohms and is being offered to dealers, OEM users and DIY enthusiasts.
$170 MSRP"
Maybe it is a bandor custom made for them exclusively.
Strange how on their website, they have pictures of current model speakers with this dark a3 driver (2.5 gram cone) yet they list it as a 1.5 gram cone. Probably a mistake or hasn't been updated...........
Norman
"San Marcos, CA, January 19, 2009 – Audience, LLC, an award-winning designer and manufacturer of high and ultra high resolution audio system products, today announced the release of a 3” full range loudspeaker driver. The Audience A3 is a breakthrough full range loudspeaker driver design comprised of a patented motor structure, patent-pending suspension and patent pending basket. The A3 has an exceptionally flat response from 40Hz to 22Khz, and -20 at 20Hz with very high power handling and dynamic range. The A3 is built like a high power sub woofer
driver using a large neodymium motor structure, big voice coil and suspension venting. The A3 is ultra responsive at 2.5 grams total moving mass providing state of the art resolution and dynamic range. The A3 sports 12mm of usable excursion with less than 1 dB compression at levels up to 95 dB SPL. The A3 is currently available in 16ohm and soon to be available in 4ohm and 8ohms and is being offered to dealers, OEM users and DIY enthusiasts.
$170 MSRP"
Maybe it is a bandor custom made for them exclusively.
Strange how on their website, they have pictures of current model speakers with this dark a3 driver (2.5 gram cone) yet they list it as a 1.5 gram cone. Probably a mistake or hasn't been updated...........
Norman
A3
Yes, Audience has had a major improvement with their A3 driver over the Bandor. It now has licensed the XBL2 technology.
The Audience A3 is a breakthrough full range loudspeaker driver design comprised of the patented XBL motor, patent-pending suspension and patent pending basket. The A3 has an exceptionally flat response from 40Hz to 22Khz and -20 at 20Hz with very high power handling and dynamic range. The A3 is built like a high power sub woofer driver using a large neodymium motor structure, big voice coil and suspension venting. The A3 is ultra responsive at 2.5 grams total moving mass providing state of the art resolution and dynamic range. The A3 sports 12mm of usable excursion with less than 1 dB compression at levels up to 95 dB SPL.
I've got four of them here and am working on a cabinet design and have four more in route. I'm matching them up the with Auric wire. I'll try to remember to post some results when I've got the first one finished. It's about done.
Yes, Audience has had a major improvement with their A3 driver over the Bandor. It now has licensed the XBL2 technology.
The Audience A3 is a breakthrough full range loudspeaker driver design comprised of the patented XBL motor, patent-pending suspension and patent pending basket. The A3 has an exceptionally flat response from 40Hz to 22Khz and -20 at 20Hz with very high power handling and dynamic range. The A3 is built like a high power sub woofer driver using a large neodymium motor structure, big voice coil and suspension venting. The A3 is ultra responsive at 2.5 grams total moving mass providing state of the art resolution and dynamic range. The A3 sports 12mm of usable excursion with less than 1 dB compression at levels up to 95 dB SPL.
I've got four of them here and am working on a cabinet design and have four more in route. I'm matching them up the with Auric wire. I'll try to remember to post some results when I've got the first one finished. It's about done.
starting here, another Audience A3 thread has been merged in 
Is it likely one can get an F3 of 35 Hz out of a single Audience A3 in a transmission line enclosure? The claim for this driver is a flat frequency response from 40Hz to 22KHz. But with a an Fs of 70 Hz I don't know how it is possible to get this in an application for this driver. Any ideas?
http://www.audience-av.com/parts/specificatons/A3StatsGraph.pdf
Is it likely one can get an F3 of 35 Hz out of a single Audience A3 in a transmission line enclosure? The claim for this driver is a flat frequency response from 40Hz to 22KHz. But with a an Fs of 70 Hz I don't know how it is possible to get this in an application for this driver. Any ideas?
http://www.audience-av.com/parts/specificatons/A3StatsGraph.pdf
I think this could be done... in the desktop TL's I made, the TL extends also down to approx an octave below fs
btw: this is a first that I see a BL vs X curve and a THD vs X curve published. but somehow those curves don't match the spec'd Xlin on the 1st page of that datasheet... wrong curve printed?
btw: this is a first that I see a BL vs X curve and a THD vs X curve published. but somehow those curves don't match the spec'd Xlin on the 1st page of that datasheet... wrong curve printed?
looking at the graph..
This driver is almost perfectly suited to an array of 8 drivers. (..a pricey design though.)
The "trough" between 280 Hz to 2.3 kHz should be "lifted" in spl to match the rest of the driver's response.
Considering Baffle step loss and the driver's impedance, a "current" type amplifier like Nelson designs (.."first watt"), should work out rather well with the drivers in a *sealed* chamber. (..aperiodic venting could alter the lower freq. response to suit the system/listener.)
..if you prefer tubes this would also work:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=magnequest&m=5167
This driver is almost perfectly suited to an array of 8 drivers. (..a pricey design though.)
The "trough" between 280 Hz to 2.3 kHz should be "lifted" in spl to match the rest of the driver's response.
Considering Baffle step loss and the driver's impedance, a "current" type amplifier like Nelson designs (.."first watt"), should work out rather well with the drivers in a *sealed* chamber. (..aperiodic venting could alter the lower freq. response to suit the system/listener.)
..if you prefer tubes this would also work:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=magnequest&m=5167
planet10 said:
..combing will start to occur around 3-4 kHz regardless of the number of drivers depending on how the higher freq.s are radiated (..assuming at least 2+ run fullrange) . If anything, the greater number of drivers should effectively *decrease* more pronounced high freq. peaks and nulls as you move away from the line array (..essentially becoming "averaged").
For the most part peaks and nulls won't be audible either - they will be too close in freq..
The only thing people will likely "pick-up" on is a somewhat "fuzzy" sound very similar to most electrostatic speakers. (i.e. linear decay will look poor if its combing at that freq. - but only for a limited duration.) In fact because of the low mms I'd bet they sound nearly identical to your average electrostatic at higher freq.s (..though they should "beam" less).
Of course this *also* depends on how the driver radiates its high freq.s.. IF the driver is more uniform over its entire surface area with respect to higher freq.s, then combing will not start until higher in freq..
Also note the way Audience has used the driver:
http://www.audience-av.com/loudspeakers/
Note that they can get rid of upper freq. loss (especially in the long array), by altering listener/loudspeaker distance. The 8 driver array alone will operate as a line source for 2 meters distance down to 2 kHz.
From ScottG
"The only thing people will likely "pick-up" on is a somewhat "fuzzy" sound very similar to most electrostatic speakers"
yea, that slight smearing.....................
It bothers some of us.
Now when I hear a panel speaker, it sounds like a 6' tall guitar.
It just doesn't sound right.
I think the more of the vert drivers you have, the worse off you are. I don't care if there is 2" or 1" between centers.
Then again, we are trying to go around the drawbacks of tiny speakers while keeping their strengths of clean, quick, pistonic, light, etc.
The great Xmax of the A3 allows less drivers to be used (half than others similar frame size).
I think the tc9 (having the same frame size) has about the same sd, but having 1/2 the xmax, it would take 8 tc9 to equal 4 of the A3. You save a bunch but the combing would be worse on an 8 unit versus a 4 unit.
Personally, I think 12" tall flat array may be the limit for listening 10' away to minimize combing. We may mask the secondary reflections (masking effect) but they still mess things up.
There is a review of the Audience LSA 8+8 coming up on soundstage.com that I'm looking forward to.
I'm unsure if the lsa 8+8 is running 8 wide open and 8 for baffle step, or simply running a 6db crossover to get around combing...........
4 x tc9 = $60
Norman
"The only thing people will likely "pick-up" on is a somewhat "fuzzy" sound very similar to most electrostatic speakers"
yea, that slight smearing.....................
It bothers some of us.
Now when I hear a panel speaker, it sounds like a 6' tall guitar.
It just doesn't sound right.
I think the more of the vert drivers you have, the worse off you are. I don't care if there is 2" or 1" between centers.
Then again, we are trying to go around the drawbacks of tiny speakers while keeping their strengths of clean, quick, pistonic, light, etc.
The great Xmax of the A3 allows less drivers to be used (half than others similar frame size).
I think the tc9 (having the same frame size) has about the same sd, but having 1/2 the xmax, it would take 8 tc9 to equal 4 of the A3. You save a bunch but the combing would be worse on an 8 unit versus a 4 unit.
Personally, I think 12" tall flat array may be the limit for listening 10' away to minimize combing. We may mask the secondary reflections (masking effect) but they still mess things up.
There is a review of the Audience LSA 8+8 coming up on soundstage.com that I'm looking forward to.
I'm unsure if the lsa 8+8 is running 8 wide open and 8 for baffle step, or simply running a 6db crossover to get around combing...........
4 x tc9 = $60
Norman
norman bates said:
I'm not much for that whispy fuzzy sound either. I *really* question it when a writer reviewing an electrostatic proclaims it audibly superior to a true ribbon in the treble region. (..which btw, was recently done in a review of the king sound "prince II" in a British hifi mag..) But, on the other hand I don't find it's a "deal breaker" either (..the particular sound isn't that bothersome).
I've heard both panels and arrays that have the bloated over-size image effect. I think this is purely a freq. response deviation. Note that the greater number of drivers you have the greater the acoustic gain in the mid-band - that is probably why you prefer fewer drivers in a line, (not because of combing). Jim Griffin advocates listening very close to the line source to avoid this (and other) problems (..assuming of course that the line is "flat" at that short distance). To me this *is* a "deal breaker" IF you can't adjust the system (comfortably) to avoid this problem. I have a feeling that for the reviewer reviewing the Audience 8 driver array will find that there will be a "magic sweet spot" with listening distance (..if he/she is thorough with the review).
BTW, thanks for the info. on the upcoming review!
It will be interesting to see if anything I've stated here is perceived by the reviewer.
this would be fun, and shouldn't sound fuzzy........
should sound like a point source.....................
http://www.atssounds.com/ImageGalle...15e-c9d581199ef5&prefix=Fullscreen&cache=True
Norman
should sound like a point source.....................
http://www.atssounds.com/ImageGalle...15e-c9d581199ef5&prefix=Fullscreen&cache=True
Norman
A3 4 driver pair finished
I've tried a couple of designs and ended up using their website recommended 6 liter per driver ported. I have two 1" ports directly behind the drivers. These drivers are so articulate! I have them in my home theater sitting next to my giant mains and for 4 hours kept switching back and forth from A & B. I used my subwoofer assist with the Audience build and the presence and clarity was awesome. I could have listened to them all night.
Audience is now recommending that two and four driver cabinets to be sealed, thus increasing SPL, but losing a little bit on the low end. This will keep them from tending to reach xmax quicker with higher SPL as most systems will have subwoofer assist anyway.
I have pictures of my build:
http://www.speakerhobby.com/audience.htm
Unfortunantly, I don't have any way to run a graph on them, but someone in our DIY group is supposed to have his REW set up in a couple of weeks and I hope to be able to run some graphs then. My ears do a very good job of testing and I'm awestruck with this 3" driver and the XBL2 technology that makes this driver do what others cant.
I've tried a couple of designs and ended up using their website recommended 6 liter per driver ported. I have two 1" ports directly behind the drivers. These drivers are so articulate! I have them in my home theater sitting next to my giant mains and for 4 hours kept switching back and forth from A & B. I used my subwoofer assist with the Audience build and the presence and clarity was awesome. I could have listened to them all night.
Audience is now recommending that two and four driver cabinets to be sealed, thus increasing SPL, but losing a little bit on the low end. This will keep them from tending to reach xmax quicker with higher SPL as most systems will have subwoofer assist anyway.
I have pictures of my build:
http://www.speakerhobby.com/audience.htm
Unfortunantly, I don't have any way to run a graph on them, but someone in our DIY group is supposed to have his REW set up in a couple of weeks and I hope to be able to run some graphs then. My ears do a very good job of testing and I'm awestruck with this 3" driver and the XBL2 technology that makes this driver do what others cant.
Attachments
I just received my order of 4 A3s. I was too curious about these and had to try them myself. I can shake those dreams of a DIY clone of the Audience arrays.
For now, I think I am going to drop 2 each into a .25 ft^3 PE cabinet and see what happens. I am considering mounting one on the back (it fits nicely on the curved cabinets rear spine) for a dipole and no need for BSC.
I will be comparing them to my CSS FR125s and hopefully some Tang Band W3-1335SB drivers also.
Searching for a summer full range project (thinking mini array currently) and the Audience and Tang Bands caught my eye.
For now, I think I am going to drop 2 each into a .25 ft^3 PE cabinet and see what happens. I am considering mounting one on the back (it fits nicely on the curved cabinets rear spine) for a dipole and no need for BSC.
I will be comparing them to my CSS FR125s and hopefully some Tang Band W3-1335SB drivers also.
Searching for a summer full range project (thinking mini array currently) and the Audience and Tang Bands caught my eye.
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