Hi there, I just finished my Solo206's and they are amazing. So much so my dad wanted to get in on the DIY speaker thing. Size was an issue for his space so he decided on the Helix AG280Zhttp://spiralspeaker.web.fc2.com/aaaspeaker/extra/engag280z/eng-ag280z.html with a fostex FE206.
They had a nice sound but the bass is seriously lacking, it seems marginally fine on smaller vocal music like Patricia Barber. But on something Like the Chili Peppers the bottom end is just not there. Does anyone have any experience with this cabinet and what could be going on. I emailed Mr. Takenaka but still haven't heard back yet.
There are a few things that I am thinking but have not tried. I'm wondering what adding a series resistor similar to that required by the Curvy Chang would do? and whether or not a cross over of sorts would help. I remember a cabinet that mentioned it needed a cross over or else there would be no bass.
I hope there is an answer out there?
Cheers
Ryan
They had a nice sound but the bass is seriously lacking, it seems marginally fine on smaller vocal music like Patricia Barber. But on something Like the Chili Peppers the bottom end is just not there. Does anyone have any experience with this cabinet and what could be going on. I emailed Mr. Takenaka but still haven't heard back yet.
There are a few things that I am thinking but have not tried. I'm wondering what adding a series resistor similar to that required by the Curvy Chang would do? and whether or not a cross over of sorts would help. I remember a cabinet that mentioned it needed a cross over or else there would be no bass.
I hope there is an answer out there?
Cheers
Ryan
mmm, theres a thread over in the loudspeakers forum called "anyone for 3D spiral horns"....
it describes what a few of us who have built these designs have heard. I built the smaller ones using some jordan 92s and it sounded lovely. But the same ones with FE127s were a bit rough. i built the ones you have done for the fE206 and got exactly the same result as you. My build was not ideal though....
Another guy "human.bin" I think is his username has built them too and got the same result but he removed the bottom I think and now has more bass. If you can't find the thread email me - I have it linked somewhere.
Please do continue to post. Given that 3 of us have found this with this design leads me to think that something ain;t right
so its good to share the experience.
Have you any photos you could post?
Fran
it describes what a few of us who have built these designs have heard. I built the smaller ones using some jordan 92s and it sounded lovely. But the same ones with FE127s were a bit rough. i built the ones you have done for the fE206 and got exactly the same result as you. My build was not ideal though....
Another guy "human.bin" I think is his username has built them too and got the same result but he removed the bottom I think and now has more bass. If you can't find the thread email me - I have it linked somewhere.
Please do continue to post. Given that 3 of us have found this with this design leads me to think that something ain;t right
so its good to share the experience. Have you any photos you could post?
Fran
I wouldn't recommend it but I personally have never tried it....It is possible to stick a resonating area in that..but I don't personally recommend it as for cars it sounds loud and muddy...anyway..why not sticking a capacitor/resistor crossover on it? I found it to be more of a bass boost than a crossover...plus the bass is tight...just search google and you might find something on it...good luck.
heres the thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119903&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Fran
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119903&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Fran
Well, that sucks! It would be such a loss if it weren't for the material costs. I had some left over walnut from some flooring that I was going to us to trim it up and then stain the whole thing a mahogany cherry with gloss poly.
these are actually a second set for my sister. We used some scrap mdf for the internals so we were able to get two sets out of one & a quarter sheet.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
these are actually a second set for my sister. We used some scrap mdf for the internals so we were able to get two sets out of one & a quarter sheet.
Fran thanks for that link, I like the part about the bottom. I wonder if cutting a nice 4" pipe size hole would work just as well. On my way to the grocery store just now, I was thinking I wonder if it is a size problem ie: cabinet to small for FE206 and was wondering what something smaller would sound like in these. The problem is I don't have and I'm not sure I want to invest anything more in something already not working that well.
I'll try to get back to mine maybe next week (if my F5 boards don't arrive first!!). And I'll make the opening bigger. FWIW, I blocked the ports too and it made no difference. The bigger opening maybe with a BSC might make them more listenable.
My problem is that I'm used to listening through a pair of Quad ESLs and they are bloody hard to beat.
the Sachiko horns are what I had planned to do, but its gonna be a while before I get to them.
Fran
My problem is that I'm used to listening through a pair of Quad ESLs and they are bloody hard to beat.
the Sachiko horns are what I had planned to do, but its gonna be a while before I get to them.
Fran
the mentioned thread was this one
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119903&perpage=25&pagenumber=4
i did built a slightly different -floorstander- version, the bg-250. but i since i used Audionirvana drivers, which i once tought where almost the same as fostex (to stop being a newbie is a time consuming task!), so fault was almost completly on my side.
bottom removed, corner loaded, is sounding great on acoustical music. but a bsc is surely needed for the AN super 8". bigger opening on back is also working, with bottom in place again, i'm working on its, really slowly.
anyway since the openings are putting out sounds in the mids some cancellation is often experienced in my room, some male voice get really thin...
if i had some money for a sub, i'd gone OB by time...
a question since you can do direct comparison on the same driver: how is the sound compared to the solo? not in terms of frequency exstension (altought due to mouth opening, the spiral "horn" should go lower), but in terms of dinamic, clarity and etc. etc. i ask since i never heard a horn and have no idea how it differs from BR loading, if it does...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119903&perpage=25&pagenumber=4
i did built a slightly different -floorstander- version, the bg-250. but i since i used Audionirvana drivers, which i once tought where almost the same as fostex (to stop being a newbie is a time consuming task!), so fault was almost completly on my side.
bottom removed, corner loaded, is sounding great on acoustical music. but a bsc is surely needed for the AN super 8". bigger opening on back is also working, with bottom in place again, i'm working on its, really slowly.
anyway since the openings are putting out sounds in the mids some cancellation is often experienced in my room, some male voice get really thin...
if i had some money for a sub, i'd gone OB by time...
a question since you can do direct comparison on the same driver: how is the sound compared to the solo? not in terms of frequency exstension (altought due to mouth opening, the spiral "horn" should go lower), but in terms of dinamic, clarity and etc. etc. i ask since i never heard a horn and have no idea how it differs from BR loading, if it does...
They sound very similar in top end sound, I do find as a whole that the angular spiral sound a little thinner and almost tinnier. We tried several ways with the angular on top of my solo206 wired parallel with the solo206, we tried solo206 on one channel and angular on the other and of course each on thier own. In the end it always came down to the angular was missing a lot of the bottom end. It was interesting but they didnt sound out of place with each other. Although I love the sound from the solo206 and am extremly satisfied with them. I think I liked the sound better when the two of them were together. The solo206 I find is very strong with the bass and can go low (I dont have the equipment to measure it). The only other comment I think that the sound stage or presence of the angular is not as nice as with the solo206.
this seems very strange to me, maybe your spiral is not working correctly.
i explain: for what i know LF extension should be limited on the solo to the opening area of the mouth, that is 50hz in almost every compact single mouth horn design.
with my spiral i'm getting a good 35hz, and i'll do some better hearing test when possible, they are at my girlfriend place so i can't work constantly on them.
if you have a computer or test cd you can maybe run some pure tone in the LF and tell us what's audible.
anyway in the HF the sound is tinner also to me than the previous quarter-wave (formerly BR on the audionirvana site, mini-monitor size) that also did a better job at imaging and disappearing (probably this is simply due to corner loading)
please run some tone, for there is not enough information about this kind of enclosure, and still not enough interest has rised here on this forum. while i think they candidate as a real good solution for small drivers.
i explain: for what i know LF extension should be limited on the solo to the opening area of the mouth, that is 50hz in almost every compact single mouth horn design.
with my spiral i'm getting a good 35hz, and i'll do some better hearing test when possible, they are at my girlfriend place so i can't work constantly on them.
if you have a computer or test cd you can maybe run some pure tone in the LF and tell us what's audible.
anyway in the HF the sound is tinner also to me than the previous quarter-wave (formerly BR on the audionirvana site, mini-monitor size) that also did a better job at imaging and disappearing (probably this is simply due to corner loading)
please run some tone, for there is not enough information about this kind of enclosure, and still not enough interest has rised here on this forum. while i think they candidate as a real good solution for small drivers.
I have run some tones on my Solo206' and found the following sitting at 8ft away:
at 20Hz I can hear it but it is quiet almost not there from 8ft away. Between 25 - 31.5 Hz is grows in volume until it levels off (with reference to the levels of other tracks) at 40Hz. I found what must be resonance points where the volume was significantly louder than the other tracks. They were at 80Hz, 125Hz, 200Hz, 1250Hz, 2500Hz & 3150Hz. And all was gone at 40kHz.
Unfortunately the angular spirals are at my dads house. I hope to get there this weekend to try the same and see. All were done by ear with the following http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd
Can anyone recommend to me some freeware to measure with. I am wondering if I can use the setup mic that came with my Dennon receiver.
Edit: One thing further I was just talking with my dad and he said they are making bass it just too low in volume with reference with the mids and highs
at 20Hz I can hear it but it is quiet almost not there from 8ft away. Between 25 - 31.5 Hz is grows in volume until it levels off (with reference to the levels of other tracks) at 40Hz. I found what must be resonance points where the volume was significantly louder than the other tracks. They were at 80Hz, 125Hz, 200Hz, 1250Hz, 2500Hz & 3150Hz. And all was gone at 40kHz.
Unfortunately the angular spirals are at my dads house. I hope to get there this weekend to try the same and see. All were done by ear with the following http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd
Can anyone recommend to me some freeware to measure with. I am wondering if I can use the setup mic that came with my Dennon receiver.
Edit: One thing further I was just talking with my dad and he said they are making bass it just too low in volume with reference with the mids and highs
I ran the same test cd at my dad's on his angular spirals and found that they do dig a little lower than my solo's, but they seem to come alive at 31.5 and 40 Hz. So they are generating bass but the volume of the bass is just to low. When music is playing the bass seems to be overrun with the mids and highs. I'm wondering if a BSC would be the best way to help this out.
i tricked a lot mine playing music from the computer (itunes) equalizing like the bsc should... indeed you can run into tonal balance but it really will depend on the recording, everything was also getting lifeless and lefeless, but this could be the computer)... and cancellation were always there, but probably that's my strange room...
i think i will give a bsc a try too. frequency should be around 500hz
let us know if you get it done. and let me also know how, since i'm new to this
i think i will give a bsc a try too. frequency should be around 500hz
let us know if you get it done. and let me also know how, since i'm new to this
no, no we built two sets at the same time, one for my father and one for my sister as a gift. We have only auditioned one set as we dont have the drivers yet for the second set. It was part of the order I placed on Saturday. There wont be any difference in sound as they were built the same.
We are not really happy with the sound they are missing a lot and I realized from what you said on my other post that a sub wont really solve the problem as there will still be a lot of mid bass missing . So I am still left looking for some solution. We will have to see where the BSC leaves us!
We are not really happy with the sound they are missing a lot and I realized from what you said on my other post that a sub wont really solve the problem as there will still be a lot of mid bass missing . So I am still left looking for some solution. We will have to see where the BSC leaves us!
Well, I received the parts and finally got around to trying these on my dad's speakers. I used a -10db BSC circuit as calculated by the spreadsheet off MJK's site (15ohm & 5.6 mH). I was concerned at first taking the circuit over to my dad's as I had hooked it up to my Solo206' and didnt get too much results. I do know that these circuits are not designed to work on BLH's but I though it would do something. Anyways the circuit worked really well. -10db seemed perfect it brought the bass, mids and treble all inline very nicely. It didnt appear to loose any dynamics or liveliness on the top end. The speakers are in a large open basement and we were about 10ft away from them and it sounded very nice. My sisters speakers are almost done with the polyurethane and will be here at my house. I am curious to play with this circuit a little more in a room and with music I am familiar with. I will be able to give a good comparison after that to my solo206'
Cheers,
Ryan
Cheers,
Ryan
great to know! i hooked up on a new big work so all my speaker desires must wait, but i'll give it a try... since many people suggested the spiral horn to be nothing more thena reflex without the need for BSC. we should now point out ex-novo the advantages of the design: a comparison with the solo being prbably the best way to do it, please do an extensive comparison
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.