I'm new to the world of DIY, always found it interesting but never really got into it due to various reasons.
I really would like to get into it and probably the best way is to start small with a complete design rather then starting from scratch designing my own.
What i would like is to start with is a compact design that uses a fullrange driver.
I'm looking for some suggestions keeping the following in mind;
My budget would be around €50 per speaker so +- €100 in total (about $135) for the components (not including cabinet and finish)
I will be using them as replacement for my pc speakers hooked up to a marantz amp that delivers about 35-40w. so they have to be able to take a bit of power.
At first i was looking at this 3" setup at Zaphaudio but something like that is a bit underpowered at 15w
A decent bass would be apreciated but it doesnt need to be earth shattering wich i'm sure would be impossible with fullrange drivers
Not too big, the Cyburg Needle and various like it pop up alot but they are too big/high.
Any suggestions would be much apreciated.
Preferbly complete designs for cabinet and crossover.
Cheers
I really would like to get into it and probably the best way is to start small with a complete design rather then starting from scratch designing my own.
What i would like is to start with is a compact design that uses a fullrange driver.
I'm looking for some suggestions keeping the following in mind;
My budget would be around €50 per speaker so +- €100 in total (about $135) for the components (not including cabinet and finish)
I will be using them as replacement for my pc speakers hooked up to a marantz amp that delivers about 35-40w. so they have to be able to take a bit of power.
At first i was looking at this 3" setup at Zaphaudio but something like that is a bit underpowered at 15w
A decent bass would be apreciated but it doesnt need to be earth shattering wich i'm sure would be impossible with fullrange drivers
Not too big, the Cyburg Needle and various like it pop up alot but they are too big/high.
Any suggestions would be much apreciated.
Preferbly complete designs for cabinet and crossover.
Cheers
ha nog een landgenoot
for near the PC I would advise a FR speaker, but with the small budget and small size I doubt if you can find anything decent that can handle more power... but I don't think you'll need it, just use the volume knob wisely
I have made a TL version of the CT222 design (this is with the Omnes Audio BB3.01, there is a thread here and on zelfbouwaudio.nl ) which will give at close range an amazing bass, also have I seen (on forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl) a desktop TL design with the Tangband W3-871 (called pico tango)
of course the desktop TL I made with the new Markaudio Alpair5 would also be nice, but this goes above your budget
for near the PC I would advise a FR speaker, but with the small budget and small size I doubt if you can find anything decent that can handle more power... but I don't think you'll need it, just use the volume knob wisely
I have made a TL version of the CT222 design (this is with the Omnes Audio BB3.01, there is a thread here and on zelfbouwaudio.nl ) which will give at close range an amazing bass, also have I seen (on forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl) a desktop TL design with the Tangband W3-871 (called pico tango)
of course the desktop TL I made with the new Markaudio Alpair5 would also be nice, but this goes above your budget
So your PC speakers are hooked up to your Maranz.
Is your goal better PC speakers or for more general use such as home theater or the yet more refined disc and record playing systems?
I use my solid state Yamaha RP U100 made for the computer desktop to do all media functions including webcast of music, over the air FM
and media files.
I can't answer the question on power directly. Just my answer to get the crew going here for a new user.
You will be surprised at the amount of sound you will get that comes out of these discussions.
Is your goal better PC speakers or for more general use such as home theater or the yet more refined disc and record playing systems?
I use my solid state Yamaha RP U100 made for the computer desktop to do all media functions including webcast of music, over the air FM
and media files.
I can't answer the question on power directly. Just my answer to get the crew going here for a new user.
You will be surprised at the amount of sound you will get that comes out of these discussions.
My goal atm is to just take my first steps into the world of DIY.
I was originally thinking of making a pair of Paper Hatt's but i think for a first DIY project it's a bit too much.
So i thought building a small FR set of speakers was a nice start and a good excuse to get rid of the shabby 5.1 set i have hooked up to the pc now..... it's decent for games but not for music.
I don't have that 5.1 set hooked up to the old marantz amp but directly to the soundcard on the pc.
Can i hook any speakers i build directly to the soundcard with the apropriate connectors or do they need some external amplifying ?
A lower powered FR speaker would also be good if the soundcard can provide enough juice.
If this little project proves to be fun and rewarding i would like to build a proper HT 5.1 set
I was originally thinking of making a pair of Paper Hatt's but i think for a first DIY project it's a bit too much.
So i thought building a small FR set of speakers was a nice start and a good excuse to get rid of the shabby 5.1 set i have hooked up to the pc now..... it's decent for games but not for music.
I don't have that 5.1 set hooked up to the old marantz amp but directly to the soundcard on the pc.
Can i hook any speakers i build directly to the soundcard with the apropriate connectors or do they need some external amplifying ?
A lower powered FR speaker would also be good if the soundcard can provide enough juice.
If this little project proves to be fun and rewarding i would like to build a proper HT 5.1 set
The soundcard needs an amplification source. The usual setup is
an 1/8 plug to the card and 2 phono plugs at the other end.
For overall improvement and minimal expense there is good advice on here for speaks that come from Europe such as the Monocor. If you have access to Fostex especially the FE127/126 those give good value and are certainly within your budget with enough left over to buy wood.
My experience with 3 inchers like the Tangband were not good. My TB W871s's are on the shelf.
If you can find some 2 ft particle board shelving, a table saw and a hole saw cutter for a drill press, you can make the MLTL design for the Fostex.
As a matter of fact there is a gigantic thread on here which goes through the whole reference design process for the FE127e.
Or on the small and compact, simple end, the Onken style of the Solo 103 from the Paper Hatte guy. The Fonken series on here is a variation of the concept for venting.
an 1/8 plug to the card and 2 phono plugs at the other end.
For overall improvement and minimal expense there is good advice on here for speaks that come from Europe such as the Monocor. If you have access to Fostex especially the FE127/126 those give good value and are certainly within your budget with enough left over to buy wood.
My experience with 3 inchers like the Tangband were not good. My TB W871s's are on the shelf.
If you can find some 2 ft particle board shelving, a table saw and a hole saw cutter for a drill press, you can make the MLTL design for the Fostex.
As a matter of fact there is a gigantic thread on here which goes through the whole reference design process for the FE127e.
Or on the small and compact, simple end, the Onken style of the Solo 103 from the Paper Hatte guy. The Fonken series on here is a variation of the concept for venting.
Henkjan said:just use the maranz and be gentle with the volume knob
The Marantz has not been used for over a year and i just checked if it still worked... only the right channel seems to be operative.
Oh well.... picked it up on a flea market for about 70 bucks a few years ago so not a big loss.
Seems i need a new amp
1 of those T-amp's u linked to on the dutch forum seems perfect for the job for pc use
I think i'm going to order me a pair of those Fostex FE127E, they seem to pretty popular and seem to perform good.
Not decided on a design yet, there are 2 designs on the pdf specsheet for the FE127E ... might start with 1 of those.
The Pico Tango Henkjan linked to looks interesting also.
Another design i find highly interesting is a Fonken design, but looks a bit "complicated" ... don't have much woodworking skill yet
Does the FE127E need a filter/crossover to get rid of the very low's/very high's i read it can't quite reach or does it work perfectly without.
I liked 3" Tang Band W3-871 a lot in 1.25 liter plastic bottle "enclosures"!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=79721
btw How low bass do you want / need?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=79721
btw How low bass do you want / need?
I don't know if this is where you found the fonken design, but you might look here for box plans for the FE127:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html
There are different versions of the fonken.
The gentleman who runs this site, Dave, is very knowledgeable and helpful. The word is, his boxes outperform the boxes on the 127 PDF.
There is a lot of info on the FE127 you can find via a Google search.
I just received my first pair in the mail Monday. I think I'm going to try the fonken design.
Here is another site to peruse:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
Best Wishes,
Mike
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html
There are different versions of the fonken.
The gentleman who runs this site, Dave, is very knowledgeable and helpful. The word is, his boxes outperform the boxes on the 127 PDF.
There is a lot of info on the FE127 you can find via a Google search.
I just received my first pair in the mail Monday. I think I'm going to try the fonken design.
Here is another site to peruse:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
Best Wishes,
Mike
Hugo,
I'm quite partial to the Solo103 design by Tony Gee, another "landgenoot". The purists won't appreciate the filter, I've tried it with and without, depending on the quality of the parts I prefer with... though I do consider myself purist... go figure... The filter parts and units together should fit snugly within your budget.
The FE103E is $38 or so and readily available.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo103.html
http://www.johneekels.nl/websitepagina/solo103.html
Besides this simple design and as some here have mentioned, there are the Fonkens, a superb design.
Hope this helps,
Ron
I'm quite partial to the Solo103 design by Tony Gee, another "landgenoot". The purists won't appreciate the filter, I've tried it with and without, depending on the quality of the parts I prefer with... though I do consider myself purist... go figure... The filter parts and units together should fit snugly within your budget.
The FE103E is $38 or so and readily available.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo103.html
http://www.johneekels.nl/websitepagina/solo103.html
Besides this simple design and as some here have mentioned, there are the Fonkens, a superb design.
Hope this helps,
Ron
Also, this forum gets a lot of traffic but I started my full range life at John Melhuish's full range driver forum. You may want to look at their gallery.
Full range driver forum is the home of Terry Cain's BIB-- at least it is original to their gallery.
These are the two sites that specialize in this type of audio hobby.
When many start here they (me too) look at the little boxes thinking they are going to do something magical. Over time I learned and was told here that you can't argue with physics. That means that longer line lengths, floor standers and towers like the BIB perform better.
The FE127e is a good choice. I have been building for that for 7 years or so. The full range of that driver lacks nothing high or low for my purposes.
The Sonic Impact (5064?) first version t-amp is on sale at Parts Express.
Check the flier for availability. Flier is posted at PE main page.
Full range driver forum is the home of Terry Cain's BIB-- at least it is original to their gallery.
These are the two sites that specialize in this type of audio hobby.
When many start here they (me too) look at the little boxes thinking they are going to do something magical. Over time I learned and was told here that you can't argue with physics. That means that longer line lengths, floor standers and towers like the BIB perform better.
The FE127e is a good choice. I have been building for that for 7 years or so. The full range of that driver lacks nothing high or low for my purposes.
The Sonic Impact (5064?) first version t-amp is on sale at Parts Express.
Check the flier for availability. Flier is posted at PE main page.
mikje said:
The FE127eN is likely our favorite driver. We have built MANY enclosures for them and many other drivers. Oft heard, "that is good, but it ain't no Fonken".
The success of the FonkenPrime has spawned quite a number of variations and progeny. The Classic Golden Ratio Fonken and the Floorstander are the easiest to build.
dave
Note: the Solo 103 was one of the inspirations for the miniOnken (for the CSS FR125) that lead to the Fonken (same box different port spacers)
Hugo82 said:
The Marantz has not been used for over a year and i just checked if it still worked... only the right channel seems to be operative.
Are you sure it's not just merely dead, but really quite sincerely dead?
It may just need a little Deoxit to clean the switch contacts. This is a common issue w/ classic hardware.
Cheers, Jim
planet10 said:
Dave: "prime" - first time I've heard that one, very cute
Hugo; if you're looking for a small enclosure for the desk top, the milliFonken* would be worth looking at - a vastly simpler build than the "prime", and a great little near field speaker. The Floorstander is only slightly more complicated a build, and definitely goes a bit deeper.
*plans are available on the P10 website (temporarily down this morning due to local ISP id 10-t error on server maintenance. )
Thanks for all the replies
Yeh i got the normal fonken design plan for the fe127e off the planet10 site, i missed the other fonken plans though.... the miniFonken looks nice also.
I will see what design it will be once i get the speakers, pretty sure i'll order a pair of fe127e tomorrow.
How thick do the speaker cables need to be.... i'm looking at cables here ranging from 1.5mm to 6mm.
Also got a cabinet finish in mind, either high gloss black or high gloss white
Can't wait
Yeh i got the normal fonken design plan for the fe127e off the planet10 site, i missed the other fonken plans though.... the miniFonken looks nice also.
I will see what design it will be once i get the speakers, pretty sure i'll order a pair of fe127e tomorrow.
How thick do the speaker cables need to be.... i'm looking at cables here ranging from 1.5mm to 6mm.
Also got a cabinet finish in mind, either high gloss black or high gloss white
Can't wait
Hugo82 said:Also got a cabinet finish in mind, either high gloss black or high gloss white
Unless you have some good woodworking skills and/or finishing skills you may find it difficult to get a high gloss finish to look good.
A high gloss finish shows up every little defect in your build.
Go for it - but have an alternative finish just in case...
Alex from Oz said:
I'll use a roller applied paint finish for tarting up quite prototypes, but after a disasterous attempt at a gloss paint job on MDF (seems like another lifetime), I realized that the time and materials to achieve an acceptable veneer job with lacquer or oil finish is actually far less - and WTF, I just happen to prefer the look.
Hugo82 said:
Also got a cabinet finish in mind, either high gloss black or high gloss white
Hugo,
Achieving a gloss coat on MDF can be done, but just as with any other material the key is using the right paint, wet sand and polish. Acrylic urethane is easiest and produces the glossiest coat. Otherwise products like Becker Acroma are useable. Both suggestions are "high build" so will hide most imperfections in the MDF provided you prepare the surfaces well. The downside is that you'll need a spray-gun, which presumably you can rent for a few days.
Alternatively, seal all imperfections, sand, prime, sand and prime. Then bring the cabinets to your local body shop. I started doing this a while back, with tube amp enclosures and have had only good results.
Hope this helps,
Ron
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