Anyone use thier FR's with heavy metal? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 2nd January 2009, 07:41 AM   #11
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I listen to all kinds of music through my Weems pipes with RS 1354s. They've been my office room speakers for years. I've played with a lot of receivers - currently a NAD 7125 I picked up for cheap. I love 'em, but it's not a big room, and I don't get crazy with the volume. I'm listening to some old live Genesis right now, and it sounds great.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 07:49 AM   #12
fwater is offline fwater  United States
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Finally, a subject I can actually be an expert on!

I listen to plenty of metal and fullrangers can do it, with caveats. Arguably, any good system should be able to play all types of music with equal abilty. Unfortunately, the recording practices in modern metal present a challenge in two ways. First, high compression (making all instruments and sounds appear to be equally loud) doesn't lend itself to fullrangers' inherent dynamics and ability to resolve detail. This is unavoidable if the recording sucks, but there is plenty of heavy duty music that is very well recorded (I have a list...). Second, since metal is a little bass-heavy, lots of excursion will turn quickly into distortion. One may not even be able to hear small amounts of distortion in the actual bass region at lower levels, but it will effect the whole range of music including loss of imaging and depth, listening fatigue (insert crappy music joke here, guys), and appearing unbalanced in the all-important midrange. Again, this can be at low levels, turn it up and the problems become very apparant, put in some Harry Connick and the harshness fades. My solution is simple- large drivers are much less prone to trip over the demands that metal puts forth. The AN8 is a good start, but if you're willing to use a helper tweeter, step up to their 12" or even the Eminence LTA12. Yes, the enclosures are going to be a conversation piece to put it lightly, but I have a set of old wideband 10 inchers that fly through Cannibal Corpse and Meshuggah without falling flat on their faces. I also have a set of BHMkIIs that have a considerably harder time with such lively music.

A set of OBs with a couple of Alpha 15 inchers with the AN8s would really do the job. Plus, your freinds will say "FOUR 15s?!?!"
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Old 2nd January 2009, 08:55 AM   #13
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Default I concur..

I think that larger fullrangers with a nice PA style tweeter shouold do the trick. Helper woofers? go for it.

I am young so I listen to alot of different music on my full rangers.
I personally feel that if well amplified, cabineted, etc that fullrangers can be great for metal, hard rock, etc.

the louder you want it though get into the bigger drivers.

later,

Clark

p.s. oh, and don't be afraid to go with a subwoofer. In my own designs, the subwoofer paired system goes by far the loudest, using a two way crossover for the full rangers. this goes a long way to giving the system adequate headroom at high volume. I am sure that the same would apply with the larger drivers.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 12:27 PM   #14
JayH3 is offline JayH3  United States
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Default Re: Re: Anyone use thier FR's with heavy metal?

Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa



The speakers will only be a part of your problems with heavy metal

My st70 is the DIYTube version. Paired with my Paradigms it actually does very well with metal.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 01:07 PM   #15
HK26147 is offline HK26147  United States
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Default Doppler Distortion

One of the problems of running a driver full range or across many octaves: Doppler Distortion
At higher volumes the piston reproducing bass is pushed sufficiently forward and backward; it is also reproducing HF. The much smaller wavelength of HF is subject to Doppler shift, as the forward/back distance represents a large portion of their wavelengths.
Paul Klipsch used this fact to advocate horn loading to minimize excursion.

Syd
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Old 2nd January 2009, 03:17 PM   #16
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Default Re: Anyone use thier FR's with heavy metal?

Yes!

Multiple tracks/layers, clear, and distinct, without dynamic compression?
As much volume as you want, without the doppler shift problems?

Good front loaded HORNS!


I went from a PA system & studio moniters to a decent "fullrange" system, and CAN, and do listen to metal, symphonys, everything.
But fullrangers sure do have, uh, blaring ok, obvious, limits in this area...

Heard a good fivd-way horn system @ VSAC, and my world turned around forever...
There were some Fonkens playing down the hall, (which I was planning to build when I got back, had already bought wood).
My wife ask me "you're not really going to build those are you? What's the point?" When she heard the horns, there was this big smile, and "you can build something like this, can't you?"

I still like fullrangers for simple, low-level music.
And have a pair in the shop where I'm building horns...
r
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Old 2nd January 2009, 03:37 PM   #17
HK26147 is offline HK26147  United States
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Quote:
I still like fullrangers for simple, low-level music.
So do I for close in/monitoring, they sound real sweet, at low to moderate SPL.
As mentioned and observed by others above, when a small diameter driver is pushed, it gets non-linear quick, in addition to the inevitable effects of VC heating.

I haven't dusted off my Black Sabbath albums since 70's, so I am no expert in what qualifies as Heavy Metal today.
I'm guessing it is a broader different genre.
The way HM is recorded today ( I'm guessing ) probably has a dynamic range less than 10db in general and sometimes closer to 6 db. It looks like a square wave when visually displayed. Compare that to typical classical music with an extended dynamic range, but lower median.

I wouldn't expect a concert goer at a HM concert to be satisfied with a low SPL, so it is not unreasonable to assume the same applies for the rest of the time.
( If I wanted to go FR I would have to horn load )

Syd
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Old 2nd January 2009, 03:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by HK26147

( If I wanted to go FR I would have to horn load )
I don't know how to put "FR" and "horn load" in the same sentence.
Horn loading is narrow band by nature, doesn't want to go full range.
I've built a few back loaded horns, one that had blended into the TL nicely, so the back wave FR went flat to 40 Hz.

Tried horn loading the front, of course that raises the effiecincy too much of the front wave, and cuts off the top end, no need a tweeter, and a sub...

Seems easier, and more effective, to just build a FLH system designed as such.
And you end up with a far more efficient system.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 05:20 PM   #19
HK26147 is offline HK26147  United States
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Quote:
put "FR" and "horn load" in the same sentence.
As in:
Perhaps Syd was under the mistaken impression that a small driver run full range with a horn load on the back of the driver was considered FR.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 05:45 PM   #20
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None are full range. Just variations on wide-band.

Anyway, personally, I don't regard 'FR' units (run solo) as a good plan for metal. Partner them to woofers, crossed in at 500Hz so they handle all of the LF transient peaks & you're getting there.
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