First Speakers (Fonkens) Done! Next?

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It's been a long time coming but my first speaker build has come to fruition. I finished a pair of the planet10's Fonkens and am very very pleased.

The Fonkens were commissioned by a friend along with an appropriate amp to drive them. Unfortunately the budget didn't allow for the planet10 modified drivers so they're currently stock. The pair is currently running off a 'Bevois Valley' amplifier; a 10W PP EL84 design by Morgan Jones.

Seeing as this is my first 'real' speaker experience I have to say I'm very impressed. I now understand 'imaging' in ways that I have not been able to glean from reading others' reviews. Female vocals, acoustic guitar, you name it, the spatial presentation and detail of the Fonkens with well-recorded material is astounding. The intended recipients room size and musical tastes are going to lend themselves very well to these little guys.

That being said I'm ready to move onto a pair of speakers for myself. I'm currently planning on replacing the pair of KEF bookshelves that I have in my office. I'm hoping to maintain some of the appealing factors of the Fonkens (imaging, detail, that lush mid-range, the 'involvement factor') while hopefully improving in the areas that the Fonken is deficient (bass extension mainly).

My motivations for a different speaker lie in the fact that the Fonkens didn't do particularly well with some genres of my musical tastes. Mainly:

-Heavier Rock: including Prog, Metal and everything in between, lot's of floater, tool and the like.
-Electronica: Mostly Ambient stuff for studying
-Hip-Hop: Atmosphere, Living Legends, Latyrx, Pigeon John and more mainstream stuff.

I like tubes and as such am trying to stay with these more efficient speakers. It's becoming evident in my research that my musical tastes require a larger box. The wife has already vetoed anything really large (taller than me; 66") and the room is smallish (~12'x14')

At this point I'm very interested in the Half Chang....am I making a mistake? Any advice appreciated.
 
OK, I'll be honest here & say that for those kinds of music, FR drivers generally aren't ideal. They do many things well, but the reproduction of large LF transient swings demanded by such material isn't one of them.

However (and it's a major one) it's also true to say the same applies to a lot of modern multiway speakers as well, especially those fashionably slender floorstanders so popular these days. So much for generalisations.

FWIW, if you want to stick with FR drivers, and keeping your prefered material in mind, there's two options that spring to mind. Firstly, stick with a modestly sized unit & support with woofers (not necessarily subs, just woofers) crossed in at ~500Hz. That'll sort out your power / transient handling. Alternatively, go for the largest possible FR driver; at least 8in; you might even want to consider the 10in or 12in Audio Nirvana units. The major issue with the latter though is it's huge (as most FR drivers go) Vas, which demands a big box -somewhat bigger than all but the largest that Commonsenseaudio advocate for it, truth be told.
 
Hmmm....seems my surmise is not too far off. Thanks for the response Scottmoose, sorry for the newbish question: in your mention of adding woofers are you speaking of adding woofers to an existing FR cabinet? Or are you speaking of separate boxes all together? (which is how I initially interpreted that) Do you happen to have any suggestions or references for adding in those types of woofers?

I'm stubborn enough to continue along this path for at least another pair or two.....I'm not adverse to experimenting though.
 
Well, there is a Fonken design for the FE167, which while it doesn't quite match the midrange magic of the FE127, it certainly adds "authority" to the lower octaves.

It's also quite Wife friendly - with plinth base stands approx 1meter tall, 274mm wide x 238mm deep.


When Dave can get some spare time, he'll update the P-10 website build gallery.
 
cgrums said:
Hmmm....seems my surmise is not too far off. Thanks for the response Scottmoose, sorry for the newbish question: in your mention of adding woofers are you speaking of adding woofers to an existing FR cabinet? Or are you speaking of separate boxes all together? (which is how I initially interpreted that) Do you happen to have any suggestions or references for adding in those types of woofers?

I'm stubborn enough to continue along this path for at least another pair or two.....I'm not adverse to experimenting though.


Depending on the dimensions of the FR enclosure, the woofers can be built as separate cabinets to act as stands.

For example, we've had great success adding a push-push pair of CSS SDX7 woofers per side to Fonken 127s
 
That'd work too, although TBH, you wouldn't really need the HC cabinet as the woofers would be handling the LF range it's operating in anyway. It's not a huge room, so extension isn't the name of the game so much as transient handling through the 60 - 120Hz region were a lot of energy in rock etc. is concentrated.

FWIW, I'd look to something like an Eminence Delta Pro 12in bass unit in a vented cabinet 30in x 12.75in x 9in (internal HxWxD), Zdriver 12.875in, Zvent 26in, vent 4in diameter x 4in long, line all internal walls with acoustic fiberglass or similar. On top of it you could sit an FE206E, sealed cabinet, same WxD dimensions as above, 20in tall (internal), Zdriver 12in. I'd suggest a 500Hz XO frequency, probably 2nd order. This is isn't a finished design, especially WRT the XO of course -ideally, you'd run the bass end off it's own dedicated plate-amp etc. so you can dial it in to taste, but something on these lines would probably be a start, as rock & electronica really does like a big cone. For interest's sake, the respective FRs of the two cabinets are attached.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind hearing Billy Idol's Rebel Yell through a setup like this. It should be 'entertaining' in a room that size.
 

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cgrums said:
Interesting about building them as stands. I could've sworn I saw a post (maybe from Dave) that had a pair of Fonkens on a stand with built in woofers. Neat approach.

they integrate quite well visually and acoustically; 4 of the SDX7 certainly move some air


Any thoughts on Half Changs with woofers in separate enclosures?

it probably wouldn't take much revision to incorporate at a bass driver into the lower void cavity.

mikje said:



chrisb,
How would the drivers in a push-push be wired? Series, parallel, or one per channel? Thanks.
Mike

IIRC, they were parallel for approx 4ohm load per channel, but I'd imagine that provided they're in-phase, whatever works for your amp(s) would be fine.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
To get more bottom and better dynamics, there are 2 approaches (both already outlined above)... bigger, more efficient driver that shifts more air or take a smaller FR and augment the bottom.

I really value my mids so i chose the latter 1st, adding active woofers to a set of Fonken. I don't need all that loud so the XO is currently at 100 Hz. Move the XO up and you'll be able to get more level & dynamics out of them. Now this approach typically will cost more, but that depends on XO, extra amp & the woofers you use. I really like the SDX7, but they are not cheap (they do thou fit into a pretty small box -- something needed for the woofers to stay in the same footprint as the Fonken). The Silver Flutes look to be a good, less expensive substitute (we are currently working with the 5.5"), but almost any woofer that will go up to about 1k should be useful up to about a 300 Hz XO (unlike Scott i'd be hesitant to go much above this).

Note: i'm currently playing with tweeter above 15k on the system pictured... so my FR has morphed into a mostly FR 3-way.

Going with something like FE167 or FE207 or FE206 (to do that last justice you might be pushing the WAF), will cost less, have no XOs, and have less degrees of freedom to confound things.

dave
 

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cgrums said:



Very very interesting.....now how would my poor little craftsman 9" table saw cut those chamfers.....I guess I'd just need to make an 'outfeed' table to support that length.

yah, that could be a problem - one could try to cut all the bevels separately and then assemble - but that's more fiddle-phuking than I usually like to spend - so I cut the chamfers after the entire box is assembled. One of the advantages of access to a commercial shop is the size of the feed surfaces even the smaller table saws - in this case an 8ftx8ft square table.

Generally I like to use a high quality ATB carbide blade for working with the BB ply, but on a big piece like this, a ripping blade made quicker work of it. I followed by hand sanding with an extended sanding block - cut a 3x21" sanding belt at the splice and attach to a piece of MDF scrap (see it is good for something!) for a general purpose surfacing tool that is much easier to control on a surface like this than any power sander. Then on to the finishing.
 
planet10 said:
[
. I really value my mids so i chose the latter 1st, adding active woofers to a set of Fonken. I don't need all that loud so the XO is currently at 100 Hz. Move the XO up and you'll be able to get more level & dynamics out of them. Now this approach typically will cost more, but that depends on XO, extra amp & the woofers you use. I really like the SDX7, but they are not cheap (they do thou fit into a pretty small box -- something needed for the woofers to stay in the same footprint as the Fonken). The Silver Flutes look to be a good, less expensive substitute (we are currently working with the 5.5"), but almost any woofer that will go up to about 1k should be useful up to about a 300 Hz XO (unlike Scott i'd be hesitant to go much above this).

dave [/B]

Even though I'm as thrilled as can be with the Fonkens I built, I find myself still coming back to this idea to augment the low end. The Silver Flutes are more in line with my price range, so that's good to hear. Without looking at the specs, I'm assuming you'd use them in a similar configuration as the SDX7, 2 push-push per side. The thing that I can't wrap my head around is the crossover implementation. I know you can buy crossovers like the Behringer unit, or use one of the plate sub amps with all the electronics built in, but introducing a bunch of electronics into a single driver, crossover-less system seems counterintuitive to the theory of why single driver systems are so "special". In my head, it would make sense to have the simplest thing possible in terms of crossover.

As I'm really green to this stuff and learning as I go along, I've been trying to do as much research as I can. With my pre amp having 2 outputs, my theory (which is not necessarily based on anything concrete) would be as follows: run one output as I do now to my Trends amp to power the Fonkens, with a capacitor inline with the positive speaker cable. Second output to a 2 channel amp I have, with an inductor inline with the positive speaker cable on each woofer tower. In my mind (again...) I've constructed a first order crossover network, and this is the simplest way with the fewest drawbacks that I can see. Does this make any sense, or am I completely off base?
 
In the set up on the Bottlehead site, why would you reverse the conections from the monitor to the sub amp? Would it be due to phase issues? If so, what would be gained?

I would think that, in the case of the Fokens, there would be something to gain by limiting how low a signal the Fonken sees. Is this not the case?
 
Hi strider75, well speaking strictly as a newb:

1. I think the interesting bit is feeding the Fostex first (prior to the plate amp's input), and like you, I can't fathom why they would then switch polarity (and maybe it doesn't matter, seeing as they later say play with the phase switch).

2. High-passing a fullranger is good -- you can get more SPL and you get to control the crossover frequency, slope etc. But to high-pass at a low frequency takes a big cap (which is perhaps why people go active). Maybe you can get lucky and bring the sub in where the Fonken rolls off naturally?!

I think guru assistance is required. I'm in an almost identical situation as you (FE12xE in small boxes with a sub -- it's been a challenge to integrate them).
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
rjbond3rd said:
which runs the Fostex "full range" but uses the plate amp to low-pass the signal to the sub:

http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/S.E.Xy speakers.html

1 "mistake" i can see right off the bat ... using the rectangular PE box (which just isn't very good -- the curved one is much better (but fragile). I'd 'd be prone to using 167 instead of 166, but in that tiny box the 166 (measured data) does have a sealed F3 of about 125 Hz.

I'll take some pics of a couple of the XO variations we've been playing with.

dave
 
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