Hi Guys,
This is my first post in this forum. Have a couple of question that needs your expert opinion
1. which is the better speaker, the 206 or 207 ?
2. Is there any other brands in this price range which
is better. meaning overall smoothness
3. decware is selling a phase plug for the 206.
does it reallly improve the sound ?
4. Will build either a G Chang or Bruce cabinet. between
the 2, which one sounds better ?
Sorry, have never been into single driver speakers. Need
all the help that I can get.
Thank you all in advance for the advice
This is my first post in this forum. Have a couple of question that needs your expert opinion
1. which is the better speaker, the 206 or 207 ?
2. Is there any other brands in this price range which
is better. meaning overall smoothness
3. decware is selling a phase plug for the 206.
does it reallly improve the sound ?
4. Will build either a G Chang or Bruce cabinet. between
the 2, which one sounds better ?
Sorry, have never been into single driver speakers. Need
all the help that I can get.
Thank you all in advance for the advice
JC951t said:
With the mentioned enclosures, 207 will be best (since that is the driver the boxes were designed for). Choose a box designed for the 206 and it will have the edge. The FExx7 drivers in general are smoother than the FExx6 drivers and they go into easier to build (simplier) cabinets.
Hard to beat Fostex for the price, lots of enclosures for them, and driver modifications are fairly well documented.
I can't speak for the Decware ones* but the whizzer cone Fostex do get better/smoother with my plugs. Some consider them mandatory. http://www.planet10-hifi.com/pp-testimonials.html
*(i don't really like the idea of putting a vacuum tube, with all its rattly bits, right there in the centre of the loudspeaker where it is going to become a secondary sound source. We tried and published pictures of such an experiment at one of the diyFests (predating the Decware application by over a year) -- replacing the tube with a wooden plug proved better.)
dave
Hello,
without any measurement in comparison,
it is for me like WIKI:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-Plug
google translate helps
"Es ist also durchaus im Bereich der Möglichkeit, dass Hersteller Phase-Plugs zweiter Art einsetzen, ohne dass es zu eindeutigen Verbesserungen, die durch Messungen belegbar sind, kommt. Dieses wäre dann eine Art Modeerscheinung."
"It is therefore perfectly in field of possibility that manufacturers phase-Plugs second kind to use, without there being any clear improvements, the measurements are suitably comes. This would be a sort of fad."
without any measurement in comparison,
it is for me like WIKI:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-Plug
google translate helps
"Es ist also durchaus im Bereich der Möglichkeit, dass Hersteller Phase-Plugs zweiter Art einsetzen, ohne dass es zu eindeutigen Verbesserungen, die durch Messungen belegbar sind, kommt. Dieses wäre dann eine Art Modeerscheinung."
"It is therefore perfectly in field of possibility that manufacturers phase-Plugs second kind to use, without there being any clear improvements, the measurements are suitably comes. This would be a sort of fad."
so you say in a matched enclosure the 206 has the edge on the 207? I was under the impression that the 207 had nicer low end to it but ran out of puff somewhere around 12khz. Where as the 206 has more of a full range to it, but not as nice in the lower range as the 207 (in a matched enclosure). Please explain this to me as i am contemplating either of these 2 drivers myself.
Well, that's much it.
All else being equal the 207 sounds a bit smoother and more relaxed out of the box than the 206, whereas the 206 is more in your face and involving.
You can almost describe the difference as with the 207 you're watching a concert from a distance and can watch the entire stage and everything that goes on the time where 206 takes you to the front row or the mosh pit. What you prefer is up to you.
For upgrading I would prefer the 206 though as they sound incredible when mounted with a phase plug and an extra magnet mounted. My main caveat with the 207 is that you really need a supertweeter when you you want the most out of it whereas the 206s little lacking bass can be helped by the right horn or adding a (very good and fast) subwoofer to the setup.
All else being equal the 207 sounds a bit smoother and more relaxed out of the box than the 206, whereas the 206 is more in your face and involving.
You can almost describe the difference as with the 207 you're watching a concert from a distance and can watch the entire stage and everything that goes on the time where 206 takes you to the front row or the mosh pit. What you prefer is up to you.
For upgrading I would prefer the 206 though as they sound incredible when mounted with a phase plug and an extra magnet mounted. My main caveat with the 207 is that you really need a supertweeter when you you want the most out of it whereas the 206s little lacking bass can be helped by the right horn or adding a (very good and fast) subwoofer to the setup.
As planet10 mentioned above the 207 generally goes into simpler cabinets than the 206. I suggest looking around on the internet. Note that many, if not most, lowther horns will work with either as well.
I hands down do not like supertweeters, so I'd go to any length to avoid them personally. And making a phaseplug yourself isn't terribly difficult. Take a piece of broom stick of the right girth, fasten it into a socket spanner of right size and put that into an electric drill, preferably one with variable speed, clamp the drill to your work bench. Experiment a little with getting the setup to run smoothly. Now take a sander and start sanding away on the running rig. After a few tries you'll have your own, almost free of cost, phase plugs.
I hands down do not like supertweeters, so I'd go to any length to avoid them personally. And making a phaseplug yourself isn't terribly difficult. Take a piece of broom stick of the right girth, fasten it into a socket spanner of right size and put that into an electric drill, preferably one with variable speed, clamp the drill to your work bench. Experiment a little with getting the setup to run smoothly. Now take a sander and start sanding away on the running rig. After a few tries you'll have your own, almost free of cost, phase plugs.
beauistheman said:
A BLH will boost bass and (ideally) match it to the level of the mids and highs. The Dallas plans should give you an idea: http://www.frugal-horn.com/ronhorns.html
But you can also handle the rising response by adding series resistance (which effectively raises the Q and is like a "tone control"). Start with a couple ohms and go up or down until it sounds right (assuming your amp can handle it). If you like this approach, you can extend it in a number of ways and ultimately, if you like, end up with a full-blown circuit to tame peaks, smooth out impedance, handle BSC etc.
Some people do the equivalent of series resistance by simply using a tube amp with high output impedance (i.e., series resistance built into the amp) or by using skinny cables (.e.g, a single strand of solid-core CAT5 network cable).
The cutting-edge way that Mssr. Bob Brines uses (which I heard and loved) is to use a computer-based setup which permits radical EQ at the source. You can tweak it forever at no cost. Ultimately, you can make the 206 "sound like" the 207.
But if this is your first single-driver build, I'd say just go as vanilla as you can, so you can start listening. You can always tweak later.
Hi Saturnas,
May I ask, what is the difference between the wooden
phase plug & the wave guide that Decware sells.
Taking a look at the FE26 or 27, theres a whole in
the middle of the dust cap & it must be there for a reason.
Now if we replace it with a wooden phase plug, does it not
muck up the sound of the speaker ? Wherelse the Deware
wave guide keeps the hole in their design which in theory
should work better. Sorry I've got no experience with fullrange
drivers. Am trying to learn more about it.
I'm very keen in building the G Chang cabinets & your advice
is that the FE206 would be a much better choice ?
Thanks you
May I ask, what is the difference between the wooden
phase plug & the wave guide that Decware sells.
Taking a look at the FE26 or 27, theres a whole in
the middle of the dust cap & it must be there for a reason.
Now if we replace it with a wooden phase plug, does it not
muck up the sound of the speaker ? Wherelse the Deware
wave guide keeps the hole in their design which in theory
should work better. Sorry I've got no experience with fullrange
drivers. Am trying to learn more about it.
I'm very keen in building the G Chang cabinets & your advice
is that the FE206 would be a much better choice ?
Thanks you
rjbond3rd said:
Yeah those are way too advanced for me. I was looking at something along the lines of the Half Chang, alot of people in the HC thread appear to have good results with it when lining about 4ohm in series. Also using a BSC as well. What would you suggest for an enclosure around similar complexity to the HC for a 206? Maybe the MLTL with bsc?
I feel like leaning towards a 207 in the HC since it was built for it, but i would like to use a single driver and no super tweeter....This is a hard decision to make.....
I haven't tried the decware ones but to me it looks like just another phase plug with a different shape. I reality though there's no reason to distinguish between the two. A phase plug is in fact the same as a wave guide. The hole in the dust cap on the fostex driver is to vent out compression behind it.
Although there's almost no measurable difference phase plugged drivers wins almost every single time in blind tests.
Although there's almost no measurable difference phase plugged drivers wins almost every single time in blind tests.
The conventional wisdom is to do the HC or MLTL with the 207 and optional tweeter. For a first build, this is very good advice because you're already juggling quite a few variables: stuffing, positioning, BSC values, room tweaks, maybe phase plugs, padding down the tweeter, crossover point, etc. Lotsa fun to be had here and it might take a month or two.
But let's assume that you are highly unconventional, and you flat-out love the experimental part. You are willing to potentially re-do your entire system including the use of a computer as your front-end so you can EQ in the digital domain, In that case, yes, you can indeed torture a 206 into behaving like a 207 with no need for a supertweeter and you are now a little bit ahead because you have greater flexibility. But this rig is now potentially very complex, too.
But this would not be the way to go for a first build. As a newb, I would say build something simple first, listen to it for at least a few months and then go from there, chasing the ever-elusive last 10%.
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