Recommend a DIY full-range hi-fi speaker better than a 2/3-way one.

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Recommend a DIY full-range hi-fi speaker better than a 2/3-way one.

Reading all about the pitfalls of designing and the problems off passive crossovers, together with the expense of using active ones, which would also mean more amplifiers, it seems to me the way to go would be using a full range driver, as long as you could get better hi-fi performance than one expects from a good commercial 2/3 way speaker system.
Perhaps this is not possible because I don't see any commercial full range products on the market.

I have a good sub woofer already, which should handle the low-frequency end perfectly adequately.

So, from the myriad of designs out there, what would you recommend? bearing in mind I want the best possible hi-fi experience and better than the kef q55 which I presently have. Particularly if it could be also backed up with comparison listening tests or speaker polars.
Many thanks in anticipation.
 
cirrus18 said:
Recommend a DIY full-range hi-fi speaker better than a 2/3-way one.

Reading all about the pitfalls of designing and the problems off passive crossovers, together with the expense of using active ones, which would also mean more amplifiers, it seems to me the way to go would be using a full range driver, as long as you could get better hi-fi performance than one expects from a good commercial 2/3 way speaker system.
Perhaps this is not possible because I don't see any commercial full range products on the market.

I have a good sub woofer already, which should handle the low-frequency end perfectly adequately.

So, from the myriad of designs out there, what would you recommend? bearing in mind I want the best possible hi-fi experience and better than the kef q55 which I presently have. Particularly if it could be also backed up with comparison listening tests or speaker polars.
Many thanks in anticipation.


That's easy! Just look around in this forum and you'll get plenty of ideas on single driver fullrange setups. A good place to start is looking through the "Full Range Speaker Photo Gallery"... http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65061

This will give you a good idea of what some of these designs look like. From there, you can do searches on the forum for those particular designs to see what they are capable of, then go from there.

Another great site (from fellow member Planet10 - Dave), to find information of drivers and slews of different enclosure designs including horns, transmission lines, etc, etc, etc... http://www.planet10-hifi.com/ And don't forget his two sister sites... http://www.frugal-horn.com/ and http://www.t-linespeakers.org/

I won't have to tell you who to look for because I'm sure they will all put in their own 2 cents here before too long.


Just as a quick reference, I bought a pair of AV123 X-Statik loudspeakers in the beginning of the year along with the matching X-Voce center channel. They are a 3-way MTM sealed/open baffle design that sound quite good.

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Now believe it or not, I think my little Fostex FE103E 4" fullrange drivers sound much better than the ones mentioned above. They don't extend as low as the X-Statik's, but they do the entire midrange and treble much better. Everything is crystal clear and "true" sounding. There's no crossovers, no multiple drivers, no phasing issues, no comb filter effects to screw up the sound. THIS is what makes the single driver designs blow away most all the 2-way/3-way systems.

Here's what I'm working with at the moment. Don't laugh, they will surprise you! Yes, they are in cardboard boxes just as a temp thing (originally just to break them in). I have a small BSC circuit inserted and that's it. These are what's blowing away my big speakers!

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cirrus18 said:
Perhaps this is not possible because I don't see any commercial full range products on the market.

A few examples:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/fonken.html
www.cardersound.com
http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/
http://www.lovecraftdesigns.com/index.html
http://blumenstein-ultra-fi.com/
www.thehornshoppe.com
http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/wl8.htm
http://www.acuhorn.pl/
http://www.rlacoustique.com/lamhorn.htm
http://www.beauhorn.com/pages/frame.html
http://www.johnblue-audio.com/
http://www.ocellia.com/
http://www.horninghybrid.com/

Putting that aside, as noted, 'better' is, er, 'better' read as 'different.' Everything is a compromise. But the sites Charles mentioned above will give you a good start as to what can be done.
 
I'm in the same boat. I have some home stuff that I like but wanna build a BLH or FLH utilizing a FR driver.

My plan right now is to use a Fostex FE126 in their FLH as most comments I've read are positive and they are very affordable. I'm still perusing this site and getting ideas. There are at least two more enclosure designs that this driver works well or better in, I just need to see what is recommended.

Adding a sub later or messin' with the LF short comings will be part of the hobby and I don't wanna start bench racing/modding a speaker I haven't even heard yet. I also don't wanna jump too deep into Hi-Fi initially and spoil myself to the point that I can't listen to inferior stuff and it aggrevates me. Sorta like eating at a top notch steak house and then hittin' Sizzler, tough learning curve.
 
A really nice place ot start is a FE127 in a MLTL. Look for it on P10's site. If you have the skills and the time, this same driver works very well in the fonken design. Once you are hooked go for the ENable mods.
These drivers do a lot of things very well. They are quite comfortable in a broad range of enclosures.

Good luck
I hope this helps
 
planet10 said:


FE126 can really perform, but the Fostex recommended enclosures aren't that good.

dave

What would you recommend? I suppose my needs as well as other information is needed. I love the mechanical look of an FLH or Spawn. I really love the massive curved "cello" FLH that seems to be popular in Germany. The ML-TL is beautiful and may fit better in my living room. Decisions, decisions. Sound quality is the priority of course but I'd rather build something I like the look of as well. I keep surfin' this site, easy to kill a few hours.

I have no loyalty to any brand or size/model so my options are totally open.
 
901Fixer said:

My plan right now is to use a Fostex FE126 in their FLH as most comments I've read are positive and they are very affordable.

What FLH? Or are you referring to their factory BLH?

Regardless, you'll need a mid-bass/bass system to fill in the bottom octaves, so no 'FR' solution without an optimized alignment that will load the driver so much it will ~completely damp down its HF response, not to mention be huge.

GM
 
Since you've already got a sub, I'd go for a 4-inch unit. I think the Tang Band units in bamboo or in titanium look very interesting, but if you go with the Fostex you get the benefit of P10 GM Chrisb and the fostex club around here pointing you in the right direction. I'm currently thinking the Fonken is very appealing.

W/O a sub fullrange setups can be great, with some compromises in the bass (BIB excepted, from what people say...). A good, musical sub ameliorates this greatly. I'd like to see more FR+SUB designs and discussion about.

and CHOPS! C'mon! As much as you're digging those little guys just slap some plywood together and make a box! It couldn't be that hard to beat out those cardboard boxes! It won't take a minute, I bet you can do it with scraps n hotglue! :D
 
I am a big fan of the FE126E myself. I have it in my HT and it does a terrific job handing off to my sub.

I have to admit, the more I read posts here, and the more I play with these speakers, the more I agree with the general feeling that the Fostex speakers are untouchable in the midrange section. Even stock, my 126s are silky smooth and sound far and away better than any commercial speaker I have ever owned. They will get PLENTY loud enough too. Of course, everyone has a different level that they consider loud enough and some people drive things harder than others.

If I had to pick a new project considering your criteria, my bet would be on the FE127en and the Fonken enclosure. I have never actually built (or even heard) one, but knowing the design and how it works with other speakers, my money would be that it would beat most anything you could work with. Add a good sub to go sub 80hz or so and you have the makings of a terrific set up.

A lot of purists disagree with the sub idea. I myself like a full range speaker that does not need a sub to sound good and listen to my speakers often without the sub playing. The cool part is when you want to watch a movie or you want to jam something that just needs the extra umph, a sub really comes in handy. With the 126, I think I might want just a hair on the top end eventually, but I just can't pull the trigger yet to see what difference it makes. That should tell you how much I like the little speakers, lol..

Good luck!

Robert
 
GM said:


What FLH? Or are you referring to their factory BLH?

Regardless, you'll need a mid-bass/bass system to fill in the bottom octaves, so no 'FR' solution without an optimized alignment that will load the driver so much it will ~completely damp down its HF response, not to mention be huge.

GM

I've finally found an industry with more acronyms than the military. Is a FLH a Front Loaded Horn and BLH a Back Loaded Horn, the difference being which direction the horn faces? Is there a page here that lists all of the definitions?

I have room for large enclosures if necessary. I too would consider a seperate sub or integrated woofer to fill in as necessary but after I've built and listened to them as designed.

Would a Bose 901 be considered a FR speaker? Nine 4 1/2" drivers in a ported enclosure, very dependent on room placement.

TTFN by new BFF's.
 
AdamThorne said:
and CHOPS! C'mon! As much as you're digging those little guys just slap some plywood together and make a box! It couldn't be that hard to beat out those cardboard boxes! It won't take a minute, I bet you can do it with scraps n hotglue! :D

I know, I know. I could, but I'd rather wait and just build one pair of enclosures. Plus these are getting me by for the moment. Besides, who doesn't want cardboard speakers in their listening room?! :clown:


hm said:
Hello,

for SUB use i made a small BLH
for 3-4" driver:



Where's the other two 4 inchers?
 
901Fixer said:


I've finally found an industry with more acronyms than the military. Is a FLH a Front Loaded Horn and BLH a Back Loaded Horn, the difference being which direction the horn faces? Is there a page here that lists all of the definitions?

They refer to the side of the cone driving the horn. A front-horn is loaded by front of the driver. A back horn (surprise!) is loaded by the rear of the driver.
 
901Fixer said:

I've finally found an industry with more acronyms than the military.

Is a FLH a Front Loaded Horn and BLH a Back Loaded Horn, the difference being which direction the horn faces?

Is there a page here that lists all of the definitions?

Would a Bose 901 be considered a FR speaker? Nine 4 1/2" drivers in a ported enclosure, very dependent on room placement.

Not even!

Got the acronyms right, though defining whether it's a BLH or FLH is dependent not only on its driver/mouth orientation, but whether or not it has a compression chamber on the rear of the driver and last, but not least, the BW it's designed for, i.e. a BLH is designed to load the driver below its mass corner same as any box alignment while the FLH typically only loads a small portion of it at most, instead acting as a WG above this point to increase directivity to more closely match the driver's rising on axis response with increasing frequency. In short, WRT to 'FR' drivers: BLH = high gain LF alignment to offset low Xmax and baffle step loss, FLH = low gain mids alignment to provide a ~flat power response well into the HF.

Not AFAIK.

IMO, Yes, though its electronic controller makes it an active one which is generally frowned upon on this specific forum.

GM
 
Thanks guys for your replies.

I have spent the whole evening reading from the links etc that you posted. As far as I can see the only reason to have a single driver in a correctly designed speaker enclosure is to extend the bass output. Without it, there wouldn't be enough bass.

Having a speaker enclosure adds problems of colourisation etc in itself and get away from what we are trying to do here which is least is more, ie keeping everything to a minimum.

I think most of these designs were designed before active subwoofers were so readily available as they are today.

So here are my thoughts on the subject. As I have a subwoofer which will cater for the low-level bass, how about and Open Baffle set up using a single driver full range speaker.

If this idea seems reasonable, what are your thoughts on the matter? and any links to suitable Open Baffle designs and full range drivers would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
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