Recommend a DIY full-range hi-fi speaker better than a 2/3-way one.

[Scottmoose]

I have spent the whole evening reading from the links etc that you posted. As far as I can see the only reason to have a single driver in a correctly designed speaker enclosure is to extend the bass output. Without it, there wouldn't be enough bass.

Correct. The same applies to 99.99999% of more conventional drivers too.

Having a speaker enclosure adds problems of colourisation etc in itself and get away from what we are trying to do here which is least is more, ie keeping everything to a minimum.

Not necessarily (twice). In the former case, the only way you're ever going to completely erradicate colouration is by hard-wiring your brain to the master-tapes. In the latter, not everyone is completely minimalist WRT enclosures. Quite the reverse in fact, as many people who are into FR drivers prefer not to use additional amplifiers, drivers & XOs.

I think most of these designs were designed before active subwoofers were so readily available as they are today.

Nope. Most of them date from the last couple of years & more are being developed every day. As I mentioned above, not everyone wishes to use an active sub (or any other form of sub, come to that). That is simply a statement of fact BTW; not a gesture of support to one approach or the other.

So here are my thoughts on the subject. As I have a subwoofer which will cater for the low-level bass, how about and Open Baffle set up using a single driver full range speaker.

Very common practice for people into dipoles (variations on the theme go back at least to the 1950s & arguably to the 1920s - '30s, although most people. tend to prefer to run OB bass units as well. Run a search on open baffles on the 'net. If you're into those, Martin King's site www.quarter-wave.com might interest you.

 

[901Fixer]

From my experience, a sub needs to be limited to 100hz or less or it gets noisy. Any FR driver capable of producing sufficient HF won't be able to go as low as 100hz in an OB set-up. The proper enclosure allows for the 100hz split and looks really cool too. For that matter, most multi driver speakers will have difficulty producing under 100hz without a large woofer in proper enclosure or sub.

For some music and personal tastes a FR in a good enclosure will be enough. More than likely, even if it sounds perfect, the urge to experiment will overcome the Hi-Fi fanatic and variations will be constructed.

 

[GM]

From my experience, a sub needs to be limited to 100hz or less or it gets noisy.

True sub system, yes, though most here abuse the description to define any system with an XO < ~250-500 Hz with box tunings in the ~35-50 Hz range, so the type of 'noise' I assume you're referring to isn't typically an issue.

GM

 

[901Fixer]

The sub range is where the FR enclosures naturally roll off anyway so that is the only area they need "help". A seperate powered sub would offer the option of with or without. No cap on the FR enclosures and the sub would be actively crossed, less for the purists to complain about at least.

 

[planet10]

Getting a typical sub to integrate with a FR can sometimes be problematic... My current system is FE127eN in Fonkens, actively XOed to a pair of SDX7 woofers under each (and later today, a clients';s set of T90s that need to be "used" before they cross the Atlantic... i'll XO them with a single cap -- probably starting at 30-40k and tuning from there.

The woofers don't extend the "measured in room" response much, but give a lot more weight. The FR relieved of the LF does even better in the mids & top. The Fonkens do well all by themselves thou, and they, or another FR system are the heart/start of a "mostly GR system"

I have an additional sub that is used only with HT.

dave

 

[artfuldodger]

There is an open baffle forum on this index under the special interests heading that has a lot of info.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php

 

[artfuldodger]

Check out the Gravity of a Dark Star thread on the above mentioned forum. Open Baffles require a bigger room as they need to be off the back wall a couple of feet and away from corners and side walls.
My listening room is small so i am going to build a pair of the Fonken floor standers soon.
I have some open baffles with cheap Radio Shack drivers that sound good in a bigger room but my wife hates them. When I showed her a picture of the Fonkens she said "I can live with them."
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=19253.0

 

[chrisb]

Check out the Gravity of a Dark Star thread on the above mentioned forum. Open Baffles require a bigger room as they need to be off the back wall a couple of feet and away from corners and side walls.
My listening room is small so i am going to build a pair of the Fonken floor standers soon.
I have some open baffles with cheap Radio Shack drivers that sound good in a bigger room but my wife hates them. When I showed her a picture of the Fonkens she said "I can live with them."
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=19253.0

If your room will allow close to symmetrical near-corner placement, the rear vented version will give you some further low-end reinforcement - not as much as the Brynn or Mileva designs, but never underestimate the WAF.

It's ever so much easier to guiltlessly enjoy something your wife readily tolerates in "her" space, unless of course there's a smidgen of pathology involved.

come to think of it , I could be talking about something else

Whichever version of the Floorstander you decide, be sure to fill the lower void cavity with dense ballast of your choice (buck-shot, sand, NOS kitty litter, etc.)

 

[Aengus]

Where do you buy non-oversampling kitty litter?

 

[chrisb]

Where do you buy non-oversampling kitty litter?

Actually, I meant New Old Stock - you're a tube guy from way back, you should've figured that out

 

[SCD]

Well you came to the FR forum and got a great deal of advice on options regarding our favourite drivers.
I recommend as a next step you see if you can audition or have a listening session with some of the various designs and drivers. Most if not all of the FR guys are quite evangalistic about the splendors of single drivers. Sure there are trade offs but this little rag tag group of eclectic audio nut bars are happy!
There a few very skilled folks on your side of the pond that will be happy to have a pint ith you and show off their systems.

Good luck

 

[Aengus]

Actually, I meant New Old Stock - you're a tube guy from way back, you should've figured that out

You're right, of course, but I've been trying to retrain myself: I keep being puzzled by the references to new old stock DIY DACS.

Regards.

Aengus

 

[adason]

So here are my thoughts on the subject. As I have a subwoofer which will cater for the low-level bass, how about and Open Baffle set up using a single driver full range speaker.

I have ben using fullrange on open baffle with subwoofer for more than 10 years now and have been very happy with this type of speaker
I highly recomend basszilla
http://store.hifiauthority.com/olsherkits.html
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_58.html
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_65.html
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_60.html
http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipofthemonth

ed

 

[cirrus18]

Thanks again guys for your contributions.

On one of the links that someone posted, I found this- http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=38278.0
This exactly suits my purpose as I haven't got a large room and having something small and neat would keep my wife happy.

I won't use his subwoofer as I already have one, so I am only interested in the mid-range. What do you guys think about this design, it is it any good?

I have a 6 inch driver so would I had to modify the size of the baffle does anyone know? If the answer is yes, what size should I make it?

 

[GM]

You're welcome!

The higher Qts is, the narrower the baffle needs to be until at 2.0 Qts no baffle is needed in a typical HIFI app. RadioShack use to sell some suitable super cheap 8" ~83 Hz Fs/2.45 Qts 'FR' drivers that do a pretty fair job of being huge wide BW tweeters with extension all the way up, but with only a usable ~15 W rating, strictly for near-field or Muzak apps.

Don't let an ultra high Qts deter you in these types of apps as the acoustic losses due to baffle step loss (BSL) damps the driver considerably and even if you do perceive/measure some under-damped 'ringing' it's easily damped down by acoustically mass loading the driver, i.e. loosely attaching a 'blanket' of 'X' density damping material to completely cover its rear to turn it towards resistively damped (aperiodic) loading. After all, I don't recall anyone ever complaining about 'ringing' in all those 1920's - 1960's mono and stereo consoles that used high effective Qt speaker systems to keep efficiency high and materials/manufacturing costs low for a given market niche.

The problem today is finding suitable high SQ/Qts 'FR' drivers since they are now typically limited to ceiling PA apps where high intelligibility in the ~125 - 2 kHz BW is all they're really concerned with. A pity as these types of speaker systems can make sweet music coupled to a zero -fb SET system, though the trade-off is limited dynamic headroom. Not many free 'lunches' in audio systems design.

GM