I own a pair of CarderSound Madisons (v1) which are Sachiko's that are made for people like myself who aren't adept a DIYing.
Has anyone here specifically tried a Fostex FE206E vs a FE206ESR in a Sachiko enclosure? If so, could you please describe the differences between the 2 different drivers in this specific enclosure? My Madison/Sachiko speakers have been running the FE206E's since I purchased them in July of 08 but, I have a pair of FE206ESR's that are NIB.
I'd consider replacing the FE206E's with the FE206ESR's "if" the sonics differences between these 2 drivers would merit the time it would take to remove the FE206's and have face plates made ---{ remember I'm not adept at DIYing, so I'd have to have someone make these faceplates for me }--- that would screw into the existing four pre-drilled holes for the FE206E's so I wouldn't have to deface the Rosewood veneer when I exchanged the different drivers.
I'd really appreciate ANY help on this topic. Oh yes one last thing has anyone used HEIL drivers ---{ as supertweeters }--- with any of the Fostex full range drivers and if so, how well did they sonically match?
Thanks,
Thetubeguy1954
Has anyone here specifically tried a Fostex FE206E vs a FE206ESR in a Sachiko enclosure? If so, could you please describe the differences between the 2 different drivers in this specific enclosure? My Madison/Sachiko speakers have been running the FE206E's since I purchased them in July of 08 but, I have a pair of FE206ESR's that are NIB.
I'd consider replacing the FE206E's with the FE206ESR's "if" the sonics differences between these 2 drivers would merit the time it would take to remove the FE206's and have face plates made ---{ remember I'm not adept at DIYing, so I'd have to have someone make these faceplates for me }--- that would screw into the existing four pre-drilled holes for the FE206E's so I wouldn't have to deface the Rosewood veneer when I exchanged the different drivers.
I'd really appreciate ANY help on this topic. Oh yes one last thing has anyone used HEIL drivers ---{ as supertweeters }--- with any of the Fostex full range drivers and if so, how well did they sonically match?
Thanks,
Thetubeguy1954
Hi Tubeguy,
You don't have to drill new holes. I'm pretty sure 4 of the 8 holes on the FE206ES-R's should line up with the four FE206E holes. It should only take a second to confirm that -- and four screws is plenty for testing.
I haven't heard those exact drivers, but I did two similar things:
1. Swapped out the FE207E's in a MLTL for the FE208-Sigmas
2. Swapped out the FE164 in a BLH for the FE166ES-R's.
In both cases, the very expensive high-end Fostex drivers were insanely better than the basic models. Sure it might not be the "right" thing but personally, I wouldn't hesitate to try.
Another alternative would be to get Planet10-modded FE206E's but since you already have the 206ES-R's, you might as well try. Plenty of people would happily take your FE206ES-R's off your hands if you don't want them.
You don't have to drill new holes. I'm pretty sure 4 of the 8 holes on the FE206ES-R's should line up with the four FE206E holes. It should only take a second to confirm that -- and four screws is plenty for testing.
I haven't heard those exact drivers, but I did two similar things:
1. Swapped out the FE207E's in a MLTL for the FE208-Sigmas
2. Swapped out the FE164 in a BLH for the FE166ES-R's.
In both cases, the very expensive high-end Fostex drivers were insanely better than the basic models. Sure it might not be the "right" thing but personally, I wouldn't hesitate to try.
Another alternative would be to get Planet10-modded FE206E's but since you already have the 206ES-R's, you might as well try. Plenty of people would happily take your FE206ES-R's off your hands if you don't want them.
Well looky there, another Floridian, and only 50 miles away!
I second rjbond3rd's suggestion of at least seeing if 4 of the 8 screw holes line up. If you can get the ESR's to halfway mount safely and make a good seal, then go for it. I actually did the very same thing on a pair of DIY towers I built years ago when I changed out the mids from a pair of *cough* - Bose - *cough* mid-woofers to a pair of JBL mid-woofers from an old center channel.
I second rjbond3rd's suggestion of at least seeing if 4 of the 8 screw holes line up. If you can get the ESR's to halfway mount safely and make a good seal, then go for it. I actually did the very same thing on a pair of DIY towers I built years ago when I changed out the mids from a pair of *cough* - Bose - *cough* mid-woofers to a pair of JBL mid-woofers from an old center channel.
Bummer. I just held a FE207E up to the mounted FE208-Sigma and you're right, the holes do not line up correctly. Sorry for the false info.
Also, what's worse is that the round flange would not cover the holes in the square-ish flange. So rosewood dowels would be required to fill the old holes.
Easiest thing might be to clamp them in place for testing, with those blue clamps that have the soft yellow plastic "jaws".
If that's just way too much, the upgrade path is the Planet10-tweaked FE206eN's, which I've not yet heard (but I do have the FE127eN's and will post a mini-review soon).
Also, what's worse is that the round flange would not cover the holes in the square-ish flange. So rosewood dowels would be required to fill the old holes.
Easiest thing might be to clamp them in place for testing, with those blue clamps that have the soft yellow plastic "jaws".
If that's just way too much, the upgrade path is the Planet10-tweaked FE206eN's, which I've not yet heard (but I do have the FE127eN's and will post a mini-review soon).
I've spoken about this before, on many occasions, but...
Ripping a driver out of a cabinet & stuffing something nominally 'better' into it should be approached with caution. A reasonable quality unit in a well-designed & optimised cabinet will outperform a high-end driver in an enclosure that hasn't been optimised for it. Sachiko was designed specifically for the FE206E -other, more expensive units may be used, but don't assume that you will necessarily get improved performance. Life doesn't work that way. The ES-R can be used quite well in this cabinet, but you may find a slight loss of gain at cutoff.
Ripping a driver out of a cabinet & stuffing something nominally 'better' into it should be approached with caution. A reasonable quality unit in a well-designed & optimised cabinet will outperform a high-end driver in an enclosure that hasn't been optimised for it. Sachiko was designed specifically for the FE206E -other, more expensive units may be used, but don't assume that you will necessarily get improved performance. Life doesn't work that way. The ES-R can be used quite well in this cabinet, but you may find a slight loss of gain at cutoff.
Hi Scott, certainly you are right. My only thought on this is that lots of people are hoarding the higher-end Fostex drivers in their closets.
For pete's sake, people, get the drivers into a box before an asteroid hits the earth. Otherwise, get them back into circulation so someone else can. Life is short.
For pete's sake, people, get the drivers into a box before an asteroid hits the earth. Otherwise, get them back into circulation so someone else can. Life is short.
Scottmoose said:
Hello Scott! Yes I remember you stating this before about using caution because a more expensive driver might not sound better than a cheaper driver the enclosure was specifically designed before! Fact is it's because of what you"ve said in the past that I very spefically asked: Has anyone here specifically tried a Fostex FE206E vs a FE206ESR in a Sachiko enclosure? If so, could you please describe the differences between the 2 different drivers in this specific enclosure?
I fiqured, "if" someone here actually tried that and "if" they achieved results where the sonic improvements between these 2 drivers in Madison/Sachiko enclosure that would merit the time it would take to remove the FE206's and have face plates made for the FE206ESR's I would do it. Otherwise since I haven't been working since 10/15/08 ---{ due to my disability }--- and while I'm waiting to see if my Social Security Disability payments will resume I need to start selling some of the audio goodies I'm not using. So if I was hearing from those who actually tried this exchange that it was a definite degradation of the sound as opposed to an improvement I could sell the FE206ESRs!
The reason I asked this question again is not because I don't respect your opinion, I respect your opinion very much so but, since we spoke I noticed on the Frugal Horn site in plans under the Sachiko enclosure it "suggests" FE206e, FE207e, FE208eS, FE206sER and Lowther as possible drivers to use, plus in the SETriodes forum at Yahoo another person who's has the Sachiko enclosure swears exchanging the FE206E to the FE206ESR is a dramatic improvement!
So believe it or not it was actually because: I value YOUR opinion that I didn't want to accept one person's opinion on this driver exchange, thus I asked the very specific question I did here, i.e., has anyone here actually tried this specific exchange of drivers and what results were achieved? Afterall just because exchanging to a more expensive driver doesn't guarentee an improvement in the sound, it doesn't mean it won't or can't happen, true? I would hate to sell the FE206ESR drivers and then later discover some people actually began trying the FE206ESR drivers in the Sachiko enclosure and everyone or at least most people who actually did exchange these 2 drivers loved the improvements they heard! Hence the question once more before making the decision to either use or sell the FE206ESR drivers.
No offense meant or intended to you Scott. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't presently own the very best speakers I've ever heard! For that I thank you once again. I hope now you understand why I asked this question one last time....
Thetubeguy1954
chops said:Well looky there, another Floridian, and only 50 miles away!
Hey Chops email me @ thetubeguy1954(at)yahoo(dot)com Seeing as how you live so close perhaps you'd like to come over and listen sometime? My source is a BlueNote Stibbert CDP w/Sound Fusion damping columns and my amp is a Mastersound Reference 845, integrated, SET with 40W/ch.
I don't know many people in the area so another audiophile/music lover is always welcome.
Thetubeguy1954
Holy guacamole, that amp is like $12,500 new
and the cd player $6000.00 ish . Maybe you would have been better served looking at Lowther, AER, Feastrex or even GPA instead of anything in the Fostex camp.. Sort of like putting a Chevy engine in a Porsche...
Just for the record I like Fostex and not here to diss them, they are what I'm using at this time myself, just commenting that at that price level you can do much better for your speakers.. BTW those 206esr drivers are very nice, and you should be able to get top dollar for them if you end up selling them...
Dave
and the cd player $6000.00 ish . Maybe you would have been better served looking at Lowther, AER, Feastrex or even GPA instead of anything in the Fostex camp.. Sort of like putting a Chevy engine in a Porsche...Just for the record I like Fostex and not here to diss them, they are what I'm using at this time myself, just commenting that at that price level you can do much better for your speakers.. BTW those 206esr drivers are very nice, and you should be able to get top dollar for them if you end up selling them...
Dave
DaveCan said:
man, that brings back memories...
i had a dr. friend that did that one, years ago...
he wanted a real sleeper that would blow ferraris away on the freeway.
that little car would do it too...
smoke the tires & get sideways in 4th gear, then take off...
fastest street car i've ever driven, & it even handled well (major suspension & brake upgrades too).
it's a lot easier/cheaper to get 600+ hp out of a chevy than a porsche, shocks the purists, & is an easy bet.
everyone knows 914 (bottom line) porsches aren't that fast...
r
Scottmoose said:
Scott your response seems as if I've offended you. I've stated here before I'm NOT DIY oriented ---{ although I'm attempting to learn, hence my visits here }--- I can only reiterate it wasn't my intention to offend you in any way and apologise for having done so...
Thetubeguy1954
Hi Tubeguy,
I will go out here on a limb, and speculate that Scott was writing in reply to DaveCan, and I say that because I also wrote a lengthy post, then decided not to submit it.
But to summarize, spending more doesn't necessarily get you a driver better than a Fostex. I have owned some very expensive drivers that I did not like nearly as much as some (admittedly higher-end) Fostex models.
I also heard an FE167E with planet10 phase plug that knocked my socks off. The FE127eN's are another interesting yet thrifty direction. Price is just a distraction sometimes (not always but sometimes).
DaveCan, I do enjoy reading your posts, and sometimes my Irish blood starts a-boilin', and I risk taking it all too seriously, but eventually I calm down and realize that it's all supposed to be fun. Obviously!
I will go out here on a limb, and speculate that Scott was writing in reply to DaveCan, and I say that because I also wrote a lengthy post, then decided not to submit it.
But to summarize, spending more doesn't necessarily get you a driver better than a Fostex. I have owned some very expensive drivers that I did not like nearly as much as some (admittedly higher-end) Fostex models.
I also heard an FE167E with planet10 phase plug that knocked my socks off. The FE127eN's are another interesting yet thrifty direction. Price is just a distraction sometimes (not always but sometimes).
DaveCan, I do enjoy reading your posts, and sometimes my Irish blood starts a-boilin', and I risk taking it all too seriously, but eventually I calm down and realize that it's all supposed to be fun. Obviously!
Why have my posts caused any blood boiling feelings? I really don't understand??? Is it not allowed to have an opinion on this site anymore ? especially if it goes against certain cab designs, ie a certain small BLH?? Maybe my car analogy was wrong or annoying, I like Chevy actually, I was just trying to make a point...
Fostex is not the best driver out there you know guys??? It makes sense to my brain ( small maybe) ,that if I had almost $20,000 to spend on amp, cd player,cables etc that perhaps I could afford a better driver than the fe206/ 206esr????? I'm a broke audiophile too boys, and have a Fostex sized wallet, but are you guys really serious that if you could afford to have a system in that kind of $$$$$ range that you would think any of the Fostex drivers beat out some of your other choices?? I really sort of find it insulting that any of my posts have caused anyone to feel hot under the collar, can't a person have an opinion or do I have to accept some of the stuff I read on this forum as absolute gospel???
I may not have the reputation of golden ears as some here, but I do play guitar, have learned much by ear, and tune by ear to a few different tunings etc.. I know what I like and don't like, and if I didn't like a certain cab that makes little sense to me then so be it...
I can't take it serious that if that kind of money could be spent you all wouldn't look into making a really great cab for say Lowther or Feastrex and never look back to Fostex, come on Man!!
You know maybe I should bow out of the FR forum while there may be a trace or molecule of love left, it seems mostly like a business interest forum this last while anyhow and your not supposed to speak out against or question anything the gang has goin on..
There mods, have at me, but when I win the big lotto you can't come over and hear my fabo better than Fostex drivers..
Be it known that I have owned 3 Chevy/ GMC trucks, 1 Camaro , 1 Chevy Nova, and an Olds in my 43 years on this planet so far..
Dave
Fostex is not the best driver out there you know guys??? It makes sense to my brain ( small maybe) ,that if I had almost $20,000 to spend on amp, cd player,cables etc that perhaps I could afford a better driver than the fe206/ 206esr????? I'm a broke audiophile too boys, and have a Fostex sized wallet, but are you guys really serious that if you could afford to have a system in that kind of $$$$$ range that you would think any of the Fostex drivers beat out some of your other choices?? I really sort of find it insulting that any of my posts have caused anyone to feel hot under the collar, can't a person have an opinion or do I have to accept some of the stuff I read on this forum as absolute gospel???
I may not have the reputation of golden ears as some here, but I do play guitar, have learned much by ear, and tune by ear to a few different tunings etc.. I know what I like and don't like, and if I didn't like a certain cab that makes little sense to me then so be it...
I can't take it serious that if that kind of money could be spent you all wouldn't look into making a really great cab for say Lowther or Feastrex and never look back to Fostex, come on Man!!
You know maybe I should bow out of the FR forum while there may be a trace or molecule of love left, it seems mostly like a business interest forum this last while anyhow and your not supposed to speak out against or question anything the gang has goin on..
There mods, have at me, but when I win the big lotto you can't come over and hear my fabo better than Fostex drivers..
Be it known that I have owned 3 Chevy/ GMC trucks, 1 Camaro , 1 Chevy Nova, and an Olds in my 43 years on this planet so far..
Dave
thetubeguy1954 said:
I've been working on my vehicle's system all day today, and am dead tired now. At least I have some tunes back up and running, and they sound good too!
I'll toss you an email in the next day or so. BTW, I saw a picture of your setup in another thread. Very nice indeed! I have to say though, that CD player is rather odd looking, but I'm sure it sounds great.
Speaking of CD players, I'm in the process of purchasing a Pioneer Elite PD-D6-J to drastically upgrade from my current 12 year old Teac 5-disc carousel.
Oh, and I have never seen a Chevy engine in a Porsche, but I did help one of my friends put a heavily modded Mazda 13B rotary with twin Baby Thumper turbos and full alcohol injection in a '74 Porsche 911 with updated '96 wide-body panels. The last I saw it on a dyno, it put down 840hp to the rear wheels and had a redline of 12,000rpm! And yes, this was/is a street machine!
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