My first ever post here...
I'm about to begin building a pair of zigmahornets with fe103e (my first time building speakers). A few questions I'd appreciate comments on before I start:
- I'm going to do butt joint for the four sides, but which is better/easier: front and back at full width, or the sides at full depth?
- I'm using the drawing by Dave (planet10). How large an opening do I need to cut for the drivers?
- Do I need to use something between the driver and the baffle for better seal? If so, what should I use?
- Can anyone recommend what material to use right behind the driver, inside the enclosure? Should that be on all four sides?
- Where's a good place to mount the speaker cable terminal, same height as the driver, or can I mount it low? Does it matter?
- Can anyone recommend a particular soldering iron/station? I'd like to try my hand at building an amp next, so it won't be just for soldering wires for the zigmahornets.
TIA for your comments/thoughts!
Andy
I'm about to begin building a pair of zigmahornets with fe103e (my first time building speakers). A few questions I'd appreciate comments on before I start:
- I'm going to do butt joint for the four sides, but which is better/easier: front and back at full width, or the sides at full depth?
- I'm using the drawing by Dave (planet10). How large an opening do I need to cut for the drivers?
- Do I need to use something between the driver and the baffle for better seal? If so, what should I use?
- Can anyone recommend what material to use right behind the driver, inside the enclosure? Should that be on all four sides?
- Where's a good place to mount the speaker cable terminal, same height as the driver, or can I mount it low? Does it matter?
- Can anyone recommend a particular soldering iron/station? I'd like to try my hand at building an amp next, so it won't be just for soldering wires for the zigmahornets.
TIA for your comments/thoughts!
Andy
fishline said:
Given the narrow front, baffle full width makes most sese so as to have as much meat as possible after the driver hole is cut.
The info sheet that came with the drivers will have a dimension but it is always a good idea to take a measure from the actual driver.
Use the foam gasket that came with the drivers.
We'd use wool or cotton felt (3/8-1/2" thick)
behind driver is more accesible (unless you use a removable cup) and has the shortest wire in the box, at the bottom leads to a tidier wiring loom.
Don't expect too much bass from these, they are a by guess design, and not all that optimum (they are elegant and image like crazy), Scottmoose did up the Vampyr (which i still need to do drawings for) that gives more optimum loading in a similar aspect cabinet.
dave
fishline said:
I'd second Dave said about the Ziggies - be prepared to consider adding at least one powered woofer if you want anything approaching full range from the system. I'd imagine these would work great in a A/V system with bass management control in the receiver/processor.
Put the terminals anywhere you like, but I tend to place them as near to the floor as possible. Considering how thin the voice coil wire is on these small full-rangers, and how much of it there is, do you really think an extra couple of feet inside the box makes that much of a difference?
there's a loaded question - y'all jump on board now
soldering?
Weller WES51 - analog, adjustable temperature
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
OK, I am a dyed-in-the-wool bass freak. No, I don't mean the kind you hear on the street that's nothing but bass, but I do mean feel it in your chest and blur your vision when the drummer hits both kicks at once kind of authority. So it was with some reservation that I put together my Zigmahornets as the mouthpiece for some chip amp and SET projects. I am here to tell you that the bass performance on these speakers is not as bad as most of us would have you believe. No, of course they won't keep up with drivers optimized for high spl bass, but at moderate levels, the bass support they do give to the kind of music you'd likely use the Ziggies for is surprisingly good. Depending on your room (mine is smallish) you may find the same thing. My biggest beef is that they do seem to have a hump somewhere around 300 hz, an artifact of the best-guess design, perhaps.
That said, the imaging is absolutely everything you've heard about. I thought I was impressed already, but this evening I placed a USB DAC in between my amp and PC, replacing the "hi definition" sound card hardware. The increase in soundstage depth was immediately and dramatically improved.
I've got a a couple more speaker projects in the hopper, but I'm having trouble getting motivated because I am so enamored with the Ziggies. One will be FE127 Metronome's and the other a BOFU Chang (or Metronome - still trying to decide). Sure, I'll eventually get off my *** and build some more, but right now Lucinda Williams is standing right behind me singing It's Over and I am once again distracted.
Good luck on your projects and keep us posted.
That said, the imaging is absolutely everything you've heard about. I thought I was impressed already, but this evening I placed a USB DAC in between my amp and PC, replacing the "hi definition" sound card hardware. The increase in soundstage depth was immediately and dramatically improved.
I've got a a couple more speaker projects in the hopper, but I'm having trouble getting motivated because I am so enamored with the Ziggies. One will be FE127 Metronome's and the other a BOFU Chang (or Metronome - still trying to decide). Sure, I'll eventually get off my *** and build some more, but right now Lucinda Williams is standing right behind me singing It's Over and I am once again distracted.
Good luck on your projects and keep us posted.
jrn77478 said:
I know just what you mean by that. Ever since I got my 103's up and running, and especially after I put more than 250 hours on them, I don't want to leave the room while they're playing.
I mean, I would love to do some cap upgrades to my SI T-amp, totally remove the volume control from the signal chain, upgrade to nice RCA connectors and binding posts, and possibly move it to a new chassis... But once I start hearing music pour out of the FE103E's, I don't want to shut the system down again until I absolutely have to.
As for a first project, I was originally planning on doing the Ziggies as well, but after a few recommendations from some of the leading designers here on the forum, I have decided to go for the Vampyr's as my first official build. The fact that the Ziggies are more of a "one size fits all" kind of design, the Vampyr on the other hand is specifically designed just for the FE103E to get the most out of this tiny, wonderful driver.
Just my 2 cents of course.
The "Ziggies" are a tried and proven design from close to a decade ago. The Vampyr is an as yet unproven computer simulation. Charles, here is an excuse to build two pairs of speakers and compare them and see which ones you prefer.
Remember also the "Ziggies" are designed around the FE103 Sigma which like so many other of the better Fostex speakers was a special edition and now "unobtanium"
More after your build.
I am very familiar with the "Ziggies" and can vouch for them.
As am I (or was -I think the cabinets are in the loft somewhere, supporting an FM aerial).
Just to be really really pedantic (because I'm in an odd mood today -too much coffee taken this morning ) Vampyr isn't a computer simulation per se, because it's not actually designed in modelling software. It's only run through it once the first pass of the design has been worked up. So it's a theoretical box rather than a simulation.
Sorry. Blame the caffine.
Just to be really really pedantic (because I'm in an odd mood today -too much coffee taken this morning
) Vampyr isn't a computer simulation per se, because it's not actually designed in modelling software. It's only run through it once the first pass of the design has been worked up. So it's a theoretical box rather than a simulation. Sorry. Blame the caffine.
Andrewbee said:
I wasn't referring to the Ziggie as being a bad design or anything, I'm just stating that it isn't exactly matched to the FE103E. Also, I have seen quite a variety of drivers (Jordan, TB, etc, etc..) used in the Ziggies, hence the "one size fits all" thing. When properly implemented with the right driver, I'm sure they do sound perfectly fine.
I mean, look at me. ATM, I'm 99.9% perfectly happy with the sound I'm getting out of a pair of cardboard boxes! And now that I have the BSC circuit inserted, I'm really impressed with the amount of "oomph", openness and naturalness I'm getting out of these little buggers. I can't wait until I can build an actual pair of enclosures for them.
Thanks a bunch to all the replies! That's really helpful. I'm planning to use the speakers in a 10x14 bedroom that's being used as an office now. Since it's adjacent to two other bedrooms and I mostly listen after the kids are in bed, spl will need to be limited. I currently have my PC hooked up to a Nuforce Icon, and that goes to a pair of infinity primus p162 as well as an infinity ps8 sub. The sub is set quite low currently.
A few follow-up:
- What stores would I find the cotton/wool felt? Fabric stores? Home Depot/Lowes?
- I plan to use CAT5 cables (one for each pole) for the internal wiring, and would prefer to mount the terminals lower towards the floor. Any potential problem with that?
- This being my first shot, I think the Ziggies are the easiest. I might consider the Metronome some time down the line. What's the Vampyr? Would appreciate links to description/drawing.
- For soldering iron, I ended up ordering Weller WLC100. At least it's a weller, I suppose. Should be good enough for a newbie like me...
Will report back with progress.
Andy
A few follow-up:
- What stores would I find the cotton/wool felt? Fabric stores? Home Depot/Lowes?
- I plan to use CAT5 cables (one for each pole) for the internal wiring, and would prefer to mount the terminals lower towards the floor. Any potential problem with that?
- This being my first shot, I think the Ziggies are the easiest. I might consider the Metronome some time down the line. What's the Vampyr? Would appreciate links to description/drawing.
- For soldering iron, I ended up ordering Weller WLC100. At least it's a weller, I suppose. Should be good enough for a newbie like me...
Will report back with progress.
Andy
Charles,
I'm with you. For all I know some other speaker may well be superior to the FE103e in the "Ziggie". It is not a "one size fits all, it was designed around the FE103 Sigma but because of its unavailability then one has to "be creative" with a subsitute.
My favorite enclosure thus far just may be the Fostex BK10. It sounds excellent but at lower volumes it could use some loudness compensation or a little more bass I.O.W. Once its played a little louder that problem disappears.
The design I had sent you has the bass but the enclosure has a bit of resonance, thicker front and rear panels are a first thought, I am still tuning it but its quite good otherwise.
There are some extensive discussions in a number of threads. Here is one http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98834
You won't be sorry using plywood. Official Baltic Birch comes in 5'x5' sheeets (just big enuff for Zigma or Vampyr)
I find that MDF obscures low level detail (ie limits downward dynamic range) as it absorbs, stores and slowly releases energy.
dave
You won't be sorry using plywood. Official Baltic Birch comes in 5'x5' sheeets (just big enuff for Zigma or Vampyr)
I find that MDF obscures low level detail (ie limits downward dynamic range) as it absorbs, stores and slowly releases energy.
dave
Thanks, Dave! I'm not sure if Home Depot/Lowes here in the US have 5'x5' of any ply. 4'x8' seems to be the only standard. There are 4'x4', but that's not long enough.
I've been reading the sticky thread on wood/finishes. Very interesting.
I meant to ask you, though, about internal wires. I had mentioned the plan to use cat5. Are you saying that using all four twisted pairs per pole is overkill? If so, how many would you recommend? From what I'd rathered, it seems like some people advocate against thick cables for these designs?
I've been reading the sticky thread on wood/finishes. Very interesting.
I meant to ask you, though, about internal wires. I had mentioned the plan to use cat5. Are you saying that using all four twisted pairs per pole is overkill? If so, how many would you recommend? From what I'd rathered, it seems like some people advocate against thick cables for these designs?
Very true.
If you can, get the type used for the actual cable run which is solid copper conductor whereas the patch cables as used between the wall outlet and computer are stranded copper conductor. (The cable from the 1000" reels is solid and patch cables pre-made are the stranded, the reason being the patch cables need to flex more to avoid breakage). The solid of course you can bend and mould to shape a little better and is much less prone to movement. Of course if you can secure it all the better. I usually use hot melt glue for this.
If you know someone who works within the computer industry then he / she should be able to score a bit for you and being four twisted pairs in the cable a little length goes a long way.
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