Favorite Speaker Wire -- Part 2: Insulation

[Scottmoose]

Horrors! It's been brought alive after over a year in the graveyard.

Just goes to prove, cable-threads are like the undead -just when you think they've gone & will trouble you no more, they come back to haunt you.

[pjanda1]

I find it amusing to see this thread in the fullrange forum. I understand the beef the measurements-über-alles crowd crowd has with fancy wires. They can keep their pro-audio amps and boring speakers too. But surely those of us who hang out in these parts, listening to our low Xmax drivers with hf resonance issues, often placed in complicated box (to have any hope of producing bass), made of unorthodoxed materials (plywood) featuring some manner (or manners) of weird tweakery and often driven by odd little amplifiers, could be a little more tolerant. If measured performance was the easiest path to audio happiness, wouldn't we all be listening to three-ways driven by 200 watt amps? Tens of thousands believe, based on their own experience, that cables make a difference. Here we are in a crowd of tens criticizing them. . .

I think cables make a difference, and I suspect my belief influences my ears less than it does for many who think the contrary. I tend to use teflon insulated wire. My speaker cables are cross connected Belden 89259, and my IC's are 89259 (some) and plenum grade cat5 (more). I've done some brief listening tests, but as Scott says, life is short, so I relied on folks who have spent years testing (Jon Risch). It is worth noting that sometimes fancy cables sound less good than pedestrian varieties. I found three Monster M550i IC's at a thrift store. Boy do they sound nasty.

But, my point is: why would we, on the fringe-y-est of the audio fringe, waste our time standing around and pointing to another group saying,"now those guys are crazy!" ?? I know it is human nature, and it certainly helps us rationalize our own peculiarities. But we can all be friends. I sure wish it was easier to find teflon hook-up wire, as it is so much nicer to solder. My throat really started to burn with all the PVC smoke tearing all those tightly packed wires and parts out of the amps I've been working on. And nobody likes shrinkage, especially on tightly twisted filament wires. There might be things we can agree on.

Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

Horrors! It's been brought alive after over a year in the graveyard.

Just goes to prove, cable-threads are like the undead -just when you think they've gone & will trouble you no more, they come back to haunt you.

c'mon, you guys still using solid metallic conductors?

how 20th century is that?

Audio Magic :: Liquid Air


now, are those prices per pair?

Audio Magic :: Price Lists



edit:

p.s. Paul, nicely put - all of us dedicated to ( or is that deluded by) our participation on this hobby/lifestyle/addiction/affliction are more than a little bit(?) crazy

[scott wurcer]

Originally Posted by chrisb

c'mon, you guys still using solid metallic conductors?

how 20th century is that?

Audio Magic :: Liquid Air


now, are those prices per pair?

Audio Magic :: Price Lists

Cryo treated liquid.

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by scott wurcer

Cryo treated liquid.

maybe it's the neutrix connectors, or shielding sleeves that are cryoed - but for the liquid polymer to be conductive, won't it need some metallic content?

and there's more than just one player in this game:

6moons audio reviews: Teo Audio Liquid Cable


honestly, even though some of this and the real crazy voodoo stuff (such as polka-dots) might well make discernible "improvements" in blind listening tests, just doesn't one just need to laugh at it all?

[raypalmer]

No. Way.

That is --hilarious--.

Let's double blind test evian against naya. Maybe a nice single malt scotch speaker cable??

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by raypalmer

No. Way.

That is --hilarious--.

Let's double blind test evian against naya. Maybe a nice single malt scotch speaker cable??

ray - I find that 4 fingers of Basil Hayden 8yr Bourbon (neat) will reliably and significantly improve my listening experience, but only if taken internally, and not when operating the turntable

[mondogenerator]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

No, I think Bob started it with tongue more or less firmly in cheek & it's an offshoot from the speaker wire thread with specific reference to FR drivers.



Just to point out, those things you mention aren't really evidence per se. They're certain aspects of electrical behaviour, which some people theorise may explain the differences they claim to hear between wires with very similar basic RLC specifications. (obviously, if two wires are wildly dissimilar in RLC terms, then first port of call is to consider the effects of these basic features before wombling off into other areas). One would think that everyone had better things to be doing of course, in both camps. For pity's sake, it's wire. Not exactly the most thrilling subject in the world.


Amen.

couldn't agree more in the large signal end of things...maybe in small signal apps and most effected i believe would be MM carts, then a small difference may be heard.

In all honesty though, you're right, it is way WAY down the list of possible improvements that we as DIYers can hope to achieve

[scott wurcer]

Originally Posted by chrisb

maybe it's the neutrix connectors, or shielding sleeves that are cryoed - but for the liquid polymer to be conductive, won't it need some metallic content?

and there's more than just one player in this game:

6moons audio reviews: Teo Audio Liquid Cable


honestly, even though some of this and the real crazy voodoo stuff (such as polka-dots) might well make discernible "improvements" in blind listening tests, just doesn't one just need to laugh at it all?

No, the Teo stuff is liquid metal (not mercury). Used to be hazmat, now they claim they can ship anywhere.

[mondogenerator]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

No, I think Bob started it with tongue more or less firmly in cheek & it's an offshoot from the speaker wire thread with specific reference to FR drivers.



Just to point out, those things you mention aren't really evidence per se. They're certain aspects of electrical behaviour, which some people theorise may explain the differences they claim to hear between wires with very similar basic RLC specifications. (obviously, if two wires are wildly dissimilar in RLC terms, then first port of call is to consider the effects of these basic features before wombling off into other areas). One would think that everyone had better things to be doing of course, in both camps. For pity's sake, it's wire. Not exactly the most thrilling subject in the world.



Amen.

a second Amen

couldn't agree more in the large signal end of things...maybe in small signal apps and most effected i believe would be MM carts, then a small difference may be heard.

In all honesty though, you're right, it is way WAY down the list of possible improvements that we as DIYers can hope to achieve