The new Altec 604-8H III, 212-8A Impressions?

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Just wondering how these new units are sounding and if anyone has heard them recently?.. I know they are coax drivers, but I still sort of think of them as in the one driver mentality, just like a 208 Fostex that needs a tweeter, so hope this can stay at the FRD thread:blush:

Dave:)
 

GM

Member
Joined 2003
You're welcome!

Discounting the large horn prosound 'engines', The most current duplexes I've auditioned were the 604-8H and the much better performing foam rimmed blue HF horn variant used in the Urei monitors, though no doubt the Urei's XO accounted for some of its superiority.

Some time ago on the Altec forum we were musing about duplex tweaks and I harped on using a bigger horn to get the XO point and directivity control down to at least 1 kHz and Todd White noted that a bigger horn was in the works, but sadly all we got is a Urei 'style' horn.

The 212 OTOH is a step in the right direction in that it has a low distortion horn and XO more appropriate for the woofer size, but with no feedback or polar plots and a nasty peak up high, it's a question mark for the time being.

Anyway, the series 3 is a real bargain IMO and with the right cab for the app and some foam for the horn combined with a good XO and maybe some BSC if required, it might be the last speaker you'll ever buy unless they ever offer one like I want ;), at least for your main system. It's my understanding that the majority of old duplexes come from estate sales.

GM
 
Were the Urei's the ones that ended up being the best studio monitor type for the 604 or? ( been reading so much different stuff I may be getting the history jumbled)

The A7's also got me thinking, but I wonder if them being theater speakers they may not work so well in your average living room, but then again there are those that say they are the best they ever heard..

If you could have a pair of cabs from the newly made drivers which cabs would you love to have or try if it's ok to ask?

Dave:)
 

GM

Member
Joined 2003
Right, with Urei's tweaks combined with the Mastering Labs XO, they are still used in a number of high end recording studios AFAIK.

You can EQ A7s for HIFI/HT duty, but the main problem remains, with a ~25 ft minimum 'throw' distance it's just too long for a typical HIFI/HT room to get the full benefit of their performance potential, so I recommend dual woofers in a large, low tuned cab to get enough of their 'punch' in a lower distortion speaker. Indeed, with the A7s I had early on I wound up getting some scrap cinema screen and made acoustic screens I painted the wall color to place in front of them to tone them down.

Haven't given cab designs for myself any thought since I'll probably never own any, but it would depend on the app. I mean for single low Q drivers I prefer corner loaded cabs with alignments that combined with the room yields a ~flat response to ~16 Hz. If out away from a corner, then a helper woofer is required IMO and I guess if floor space and budget allowed, then OB with four helper woofers. For HT, sealed with a sub system.

GM
 
Thanks GM, and those corner horns sound like they could be awesome!! I was thinking of maybe adding in some IB bass if needed ,to compliment whatever system I end up with, but if that may not be needed then that's some good savings right there..

I'm going to be moving to a different province once the house sells, so I don't really know at this time what the new place will be like for my listening room area, but I'm hoping for a decent room with corners that can be used, and the potential underneath or behind the speaker locations to try out some IB bass..

Dave:)
 
IMO,

The new series III are an amazing speaker and an incredible value. $2k for world class sound from a speaker is practically unheard of. I have only heard them with the stock crossover and in a JE Labs OB, but after 200-300 hours the stock crossover calms down and actually sounds very nice. Having sold and owned many "audiophile" and low efficiency designs in the past I am never going back. I don't know what happened to speaker companies over the years, because if they were getting sounds like this in the 50 years ago, why would it have ever gone the other way?

Marketing.

Chris
 
DaveCan said:
Thanks GM, and those corner horns sound like they could be awesome!! I was thinking of maybe adding in some IB bass if needed ,to compliment whatever system I end up with, but if that may not be needed then that's some good savings right there.

You're welcome!

Uh, corner loaded speakers, not horns, i.e. something along the lines of these or these.

GM
 
Has anyone used a 604 variant in a 614 enclosure? Thank you in advance. It might be the only domestically acceptable enclosure to my wife....and my JE labs baffles are parked at a buddy's house house for this very reason. I like visiting my speakers, but I want to do it in my own home.

Chris
 
Thanks GM, and yes corner loaded not corner horn my mistake.. I'm very happy you posted those links, because as I've been looking at various Altec stuff I came across the second link page (Billforts) and couldn't find it ever again, I really like those cabs!! Dave:)
 
I am a great believer in corner loading given that the room dimensions can support the action.

I ran some sims on OB and corner loading, the way i see it with the proper rear deflector you can corner load an OB with the fact of it performing more like the Bo$e 901. This in itself is not a bad thing as the figure 8 response is basically sent to the sides of the rear portion of the baffle. You can even back an OB to a wall with a deflector. The reason i did the sim was the fact of placement in the room , which with an OB demands away from the side and rear walls , which in some applications is not a viable option.

Any ideas or feedback is very welcome.

Thanks
ron
 
Yeah, early on the other 'FR' forum we got into this a bit. After reading a '50s era patent for a corner loaded 'OB' horn ages ago I did a few experiments and it worked quite well with the typical high Q systems of the day, but with very low Qts Altecs, etc., it required way more bass EQ than I was willing to tolerate, so stuck with what we now call EBS alignments for high SQ systems. With today's low distortion, high power amps and medium Q drivers with at least several mm of Xmax such as the JX92S, it may be worth pursuing again.

GM
 
Well even though it's a ways away till I get this going, (which is good because our dollar has tanked big time recently) I e-mailed GPA for pricing on the 212 and 604, with and without the x-overs ... I also inquired, as to if the 212 might have a tad more sq in a home application over the 604, or if they are about the same in sq with the 212 just having less low end?..

That 16hz corner loaded cab you mentioned GM ,sounds like a pretty awesome way to go to me, and I think I get the reason for wider front baffle's instead of the narrower one's for overall sq now..

Dave :)
 
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