MJK’s Jordan JX92S OB with a Goldwood GW-1858 Woofer in an H Frame - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 20th October 2008, 06:58 PM   #21
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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kmaier,

Thanks for the review of the FX120 and F120A. It was enough to motivate me to finally purchase a pair of the F120A drivers today. It will be very interesting to do a side by side comparison with the Jordan drivers in my OB/H frame based design.
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Old 20th October 2008, 08:23 PM   #22
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Ten watts at 89db? Ouch. I hope it holds up. Is it true that AlNiCo weakens over time?

Also note that the center cap is the same one as on the F200A, which produces awful ringing sounds.
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Old 20th October 2008, 09:15 PM   #23
kmaier is offline kmaier  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by InclinedPlane
Ten watts at 89db? Ouch. I hope it holds up. Is it true that AlNiCo weakens over time?

Also note that the center cap is the same one as on the F200A, which produces awful ringing sounds.
It's no surprise about the sensitivity rating of these drivers. Note that Martin has them listed in his original document, albeit he has been using the JX92 driver which has a similar sensitivity rating at 88.2 dB. Despite the Jordan having a power rating of 100 watts, I doubt this small driver will handle that for long.

Most magnetic materials will lose some of their power over time, but consider vintage alnico drivers which are 4+ decades in age... still they are sought after and many still perform exceptionally well.

As always, your personal preference for acceptable SPL levels is just that, your personal preference. Not everyone shares it, sorry. I've driven the F120A with 40-watt Push-Pull tube amps and they get plenty loud for me. For most of my listening I used a custom pair of 45 SET monoblocks and these drivers are exceptional at their price.

With regard to your bold statements regarding the F120A parts makeup and the F200A, are you speaking from direct experience with both drivers? I have listened to this driver extensively and there is no awful ringing. Others out here have also done some extensive listening to the F120A and nobody with direct experience has commented on such a problem.

Regards, KM
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Old 20th October 2008, 09:54 PM   #24
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Any reason why cheaper drivers like these

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-340

won't work well in an H frame OB design?
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Old 20th October 2008, 11:26 PM   #25
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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Godzilla,

I looked at that Goldwood 15" driver and the 8 ohm version early in my scoping study, they both worked well in an OB but in an H frame. In the H frame there was a bit of a peak at the cut-off frequency and the impulse response had a significant ringing. I concluded they would work really well in an OB but probably not so well in an H frame. The Qts is a little too high for the H frame.

Hope that helps,
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Old 20th October 2008, 11:40 PM   #26
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Indeed I am talking with direct experience kmaier. I listened to a pair of 200A (used and ?broken in?) and decided to resell them after only one hour. Also have a look at this site so you can be sure I'm not alone:

http://www.iol.ie/~waltonaudio/fostex.html

The supposedly wild accusations I make are indeed grounded in experience with expensive drivers that do not perform. Can I prove it? Nah. Everyone's opinions differ. But my experience with The Fostex FE166e and 206 was all good except a harsh top end. With the 200A it was all good except a ringing kind of metallic top end. (the 120 has the same cone, magnet, metal cap and suspension) With Lowther it was shouty mids, no bass with downright painfully harsh and exaggerated top end. With the AER MD2B it was a lack of enough top end and also harsh mids but low level detail to die for. With the ANS8 all good with less scrape n' grind in the upper mids when played louder.
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Old 21st October 2008, 12:03 AM   #27
ttan98 is online now ttan98  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by kmaier
Martin,

I have had both the FX120 and F120A for quite some time and have listened to both extensively. These drivers share much in common from a materials point... i.e., the die-cast frame, spider, cone, dust cover and surround. The cone looks different from the front but looks the same from the rear. The surround also looks slightly different but it's unclear if the difference is purely for aesthetics... the cone color seems to be about it. The major difference lies in the magnet structure, ceramic versus Alnico and the fact that the F120A is from their Laboratory Series and still made in Japan while the FX120 is made in China.

From a comparison for listening, the F120A is the winner and by a good margin. They provide much better detail and low-level information that just gets lost with the FX120. High-frequency content, like the sizzle on cymbals, are excellent on the F120A while the FX120 simply doesn't deliver here. I also found the F120A has better tolerance, as my FX120 pair is off by ~1 dB in output level and the F120A pair is spot on. IMHO, they are worth the 2x price based on the performance improvement alone. I actually bought an extra pair of these after swapping from the FX120.

I also am interested in pairing up the F120A with a pair of H-frame subs at some point. I'm leaning towards a 15-inch, but still have a mental block on such a cheap driver paired up with the F120A. I'd actually like to mate it with another Fostex driver but that seems unlikely. Hope this POV is helpful.

Regards, KM

Hi,

You seem to give the thumbs up to the F120A, I wonder how you use it, in open baffle or in a cabinet. Can you provide a little more detail? Thks.
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Old 21st October 2008, 12:10 AM   #28
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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InclinedPlane,

Looks like you have been through quite a few drivers. Most of these drivers have a very good reputation. I have used a few of the drivers you have tried and later sold with great success.

Based on your frequent description of harshness, I have to wonder if it is the driver or the design in which you have tried to use the driver. To me it would appear that you have had a constant struggle with baffle step problems which leads to a harsh shouty high frequency response. I can make any of my full range drivers designs sound harsh and shouty, but then I can also tame them using appropriate filters and/or system design and the results are very pleasing.

The link you provided for the F200A shows a bass reflex enclosure and never mentions how the baffle step was accounted for in the design. It probably was not and the result was a harsh response, no big surprise. If you look at Bob Brines' TL design using the F200A, he does use a filter to rebalance the SPL response and his product has had glowing reviews. It takes a driver and a good system design to achieve outstanding performance. It is probably easier to make an inferior driver perform well with a good syatem design then to take a great driver and put it into an inappropriate design and hope for outstanding results.

I really wonder how much of what you are hearing is due to poor system design and not really a property of the driver. How are you designing your speaker systems? If you say that you are just building without doing any simulations or other detailed calculations, then I think you are generating some of your own problems.
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Old 21st October 2008, 01:10 AM   #29
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Owning the FX-120 and having tested and measured 4 to get a pair, there can be some slight ringing at 15-16K (a few db and fairly high Q) but it is not in the range that should cause "harshness."
Not having heard the F200a, and without passing judgment, If it had harshness and IF that was connected to the dome, the same mechanism in the FX-120 or F120a would occur at roughly twice the frequency due to being roughly half the size and would have a completely different effect.

Sean
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Old 21st October 2008, 01:45 AM   #30
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Thanks Martin, that does help.

Did you happen to look at this Goldwood too? I want to make a decision to buy one of these this week.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-346

It has a lower Qts. Would it be a better choice in an H frame?

If you haven't looked at this driver, that's ok. I think i will try an H frame regardless. It will fit my room and offer some flexibility with placement. I expect it will enhance bass response of my BIBs with nice warmth and fullness. I also plan to use a dedicated amp to drive the H frames. I'm pretty excited about starting another project too. First one since getting out of the hospital 6 months ago. Getting back in the saddle and doing things i normally do is great therapy. I hope to satisfy some curiosities and learn something in the process.

Peace,
Godzilla
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