right ive got some lowther horn cabs and cant possible afford to fit them with lowther drivers 
.
so the question is do i fit Fostex FE206e (i would actually be using the Decware modified versions) or the audio nirvana super 8 cast chassis's. i have heard good things about both and was just wondering what you lot thought. my music taste varies to much to tell you exactly what i will be playing through them, i do however understand their limitations. i'm currently thinking the Fostex drivers due their slightly better response at the lower end.
P.S i want the opinions of people who have used these drivers not people who have just looked at the datasheets and made their minds up that way i can do that myself.
as always thanks in advance
soundbadger
.so the question is do i fit Fostex FE206e (i would actually be using the Decware modified versions) or the audio nirvana super 8 cast chassis's. i have heard good things about both and was just wondering what you lot thought. my music taste varies to much to tell you exactly what i will be playing through them, i do however understand their limitations. i'm currently thinking the Fostex drivers due their slightly better response at the lower end.
P.S i want the opinions of people who have used these drivers not people who have just looked at the datasheets and made their minds up that way i can do that myself.
as always thanks in advance
soundbadger
Usually isn't a great idea to stuff drivers in a cab that wasn't specifically designed for them... I'd take the Decware modded 206 over the AN driver even without hearing them.
All I can offer is that at the recent DecFest that was put online for all to see, all the cabs that used the modded 206 driver seemed to be highly favored by the comments and expressions of the listeners at the fest.. I'd sell the Lowther cabs and build a new set of 206 specific cabs if it were me, but as always ymmv..
Dave
All I can offer is that at the recent DecFest that was put online for all to see, all the cabs that used the modded 206 driver seemed to be highly favored by the comments and expressions of the listeners at the fest.. I'd sell the Lowther cabs and build a new set of 206 specific cabs if it were me, but as always ymmv..
Dave
i shall proberbly get the decware 206's and stick with the lowther cabs until ive got the time to either build some cabs designed for them or design my own (ive been reading and trying to understand J.E Bensons "theory and design of loudspeaker enclosures"). i dont have time at the mo to build anything other than my new amps
anyhow cheers dave
anyhow cheers dave
Horn cabs aren't really driver specific
Rear loaded horn designs don't change much with different drivers. and the Lowther, Fostex, and Audio Nirvana drivers are close enough to the same specs that they probably wouldn't model any differently in a given horn design anyway. As for choosing between them I haven't yet heard the ANs but have been lusting after them for a few months and will get them eventually, as for the Fostexes I have heard them and was blown away! They are Awesome! Sorry if I wasn't much help.
Rear loaded horn designs don't change much with different drivers. and the Lowther, Fostex, and Audio Nirvana drivers are close enough to the same specs that they probably wouldn't model any differently in a given horn design anyway. As for choosing between them I haven't yet heard the ANs but have been lusting after them for a few months and will get them eventually, as for the Fostexes I have heard them and was blown away! They are Awesome! Sorry if I wasn't much help.
Let me ask you this: do you listen at low volume or high? Lowther is unlistenable (painful) at all but low volume. These are the worst speakers I've used, period.
Fostex drivers allow louder playback but still suffer from the same kind of harshness that bleeds your ears at volumes that other speakers show no trace of (like the utterly boring yet smooth and comfortable B&W speakers)
The ANs are my pick so far. Their high frequency extension beats Fostex by miles. The detail they resolve is probably 85-90% of the $2500 AER drivers (also harsh sounding) I have yet cost a small fraction. Indeed, they offer much better high frequency extension as well. I can play them loud without losing blood through my eardrums for the most part (no they aren't free of this problem but not bad)
However, if the Enable process works, it should fix any of these drivers. Although Lowther will still be twice as loud at 8khz than it is at 1khz so still an expensive paperweight.)
I don't offer any advice on which driver offers better bass because none of them (or any widerange driver) offer realistic levels of bass without large helper bass drivers, regardless of enclosure type IMO.
Fostex drivers allow louder playback but still suffer from the same kind of harshness that bleeds your ears at volumes that other speakers show no trace of (like the utterly boring yet smooth and comfortable B&W speakers)
The ANs are my pick so far. Their high frequency extension beats Fostex by miles. The detail they resolve is probably 85-90% of the $2500 AER drivers (also harsh sounding) I have yet cost a small fraction. Indeed, they offer much better high frequency extension as well. I can play them loud without losing blood through my eardrums for the most part (no they aren't free of this problem but not bad)
However, if the Enable process works, it should fix any of these drivers. Although Lowther will still be twice as loud at 8khz than it is at 1khz so still an expensive paperweight.)
I don't offer any advice on which driver offers better bass because none of them (or any widerange driver) offer realistic levels of bass without large helper bass drivers, regardless of enclosure type IMO.
....right!
I love it when people say things like that. The speakers that many highly respected audiophiles revere as the unquestionably best drivers in the world, and you say they are harsh and unlistenable! Did you ever consider that maybe it's your amplifier that is harsh and unlistenable. when you finally hear it through some good speakers. I have B&Ws at home and I like them but your right they are a little boring, but when I heard Fostex drivers in rear loaded horns they were hands down the best sounding speaker I have ever encountered( and I have heard alot of speakers). There was absolutely no sign of harshness whatsoever through my Marantz PM300 integrated amp. Listening to MP3s on a computer. When we put in a CD it was unbelievable and LPs were earth shattering. If by harsh you mean fast, dynamic, unclouded, undistorted, uncompressed and downright real then you might have something, but I don't think so.
I love it when people say things like that. The speakers that many highly respected audiophiles revere as the unquestionably best drivers in the world, and you say they are harsh and unlistenable! Did you ever consider that maybe it's your amplifier that is harsh and unlistenable. when you finally hear it through some good speakers. I have B&Ws at home and I like them but your right they are a little boring, but when I heard Fostex drivers in rear loaded horns they were hands down the best sounding speaker I have ever encountered( and I have heard alot of speakers). There was absolutely no sign of harshness whatsoever through my Marantz PM300 integrated amp. Listening to MP3s on a computer. When we put in a CD it was unbelievable and LPs were earth shattering. If by harsh you mean fast, dynamic, unclouded, undistorted, uncompressed and downright real then you might have something, but I don't think so.
Attachments
Oh yeah and they play crazy loud and the larger ones actually have a bit too much low bass (down below 40hz) The gentleman above is obviously making sweep generalities based on very limited experience. Because I have admittedly fairly limited experience as well but I experienced none of the affects he is so quick to assign to all such designs. The fostex drivers in RLD designs that I have listened to at great lengths and helped build, were extreemly smooth detailed and balanced the smaller speakers lacked somewhat in the low bass in our humongous commercial cabinet shop but had excellent bass (down to 50-60hz) in a normal room. The only complaint I have about the big ones is that they had a little too much bass. These speakers lack nothing!!!
I'd just like to add still, that putting the Decware modded drivers into cabs designed for Lowthers, will most likely not let you experience the true potential of your new drivers.. Horns differ enough to merit the effort to design for the drivers in question when time allows etc..
The comment above re the AER and Lowthers and the AN wins out in your opinion.. I'd say that's great for you that you have found your audio bliss, and at quite a savings I might add, but hardly a statement that should be taken seriously, and I won't
Dave
The comment above re the AER and Lowthers and the AN wins out in your opinion.. I'd say that's great for you that you have found your audio bliss, and at quite a savings I might add, but hardly a statement that should be taken seriously, and I won't
Dave
Yeah, but...
True but if he has the cabs already and can't spring for the lowthers, the ANs or Fostexes are still gonna sound great. He can always modify them to better suit the drivers if he desires. It makes a whole lot more sense to me than starting from scratch when he already has something really good.
True but if he has the cabs already and can't spring for the lowthers, the ANs or Fostexes are still gonna sound great. He can always modify them to better suit the drivers if he desires. It makes a whole lot more sense to me than starting from scratch when he already has something really good.
If a loudspeaker causes pain in my ears in the upper midrange in a variety of enclosures and amplifiers how could that be a 'sweeping generalization'? If a loudspeaker's (such as Lowther EX2) tested and confirmed response has a +/- 15-20 db deviation between 300 and 8khz then it's just another Bose 901 that requires heavy equalization; passive or active.
Any speaker that requires an elaborate enclosure or other modification to make up for its shortcomings is a poorly designed unit, not user 'limited experience'. Keep buying them, though. I know it's thrilling to spend oodles of hours and dollars trying to improve something that's fundamentally screwed up.
I used the Fostex F200A for a little while but soon discovered that despite its high price, it's 'screwed up'. The hard metal center cap produces some truly nasty highs. The FE series are nice units, but not at high volume.
My amp is an upgraded Denon PMA S1; one of the best integrateds ever to hit the market. Bummer, can't blame the amp!
Any speaker that requires an elaborate enclosure or other modification to make up for its shortcomings is a poorly designed unit, not user 'limited experience'. Keep buying them, though. I know it's thrilling to spend oodles of hours and dollars trying to improve something that's fundamentally screwed up.
I used the Fostex F200A for a little while but soon discovered that despite its high price, it's 'screwed up'. The hard metal center cap produces some truly nasty highs. The FE series are nice units, but not at high volume.
My amp is an upgraded Denon PMA S1; one of the best integrateds ever to hit the market. Bummer, can't blame the amp!
Hmm. Yes. The 8in Audio Nirvana range. Those famously flat drivers which don't at all have a 10 - 16db rise in their response (depending on model) by their own published graphs.
A driver which requires an elaborate enclosure is badly designed? So, does that mean if it happens to have been designed specifically for use in that sort of enclosure it's badly designed? If so, I beg to differ. If people don't use it for the purpose it's intended, that's their problem. BTW, EnABL won't solve any of the issues you mention, although it should improve the downward dynamic range somewhat. And I think you could well point the finger at an amplifier-driver mis-match. Doesn't matter how good or otherwise an amplifier is, if it's not well suited to your speakers. If that Denon follows their usual design approach of low output impedance / high damping factor then it won't do a whole lot for the sound of most low Q drivers as it's not doing anything to compensate for their inherently well-damped LF & high mass-corner. Most amplifiers of this type do not work well with such drivers, unless some form of correction is applied.
As for high SPLs, that will be dependant upon how you're controlling excursion (as well as amp etc. issues).
Back on topic, personally, I'd go with the AN cast frame models over the Decware, for horn duties at any rate. And you can always modify it to suit yourself. Alternatively, go with a stock 206 & modify to your own requirements, or Dave's P10 206-eN's (see www.planet10-hifi.com )
A driver which requires an elaborate enclosure is badly designed? So, does that mean if it happens to have been designed specifically for use in that sort of enclosure it's badly designed? If so, I beg to differ. If people don't use it for the purpose it's intended, that's their problem. BTW, EnABL won't solve any of the issues you mention, although it should improve the downward dynamic range somewhat. And I think you could well point the finger at an amplifier-driver mis-match. Doesn't matter how good or otherwise an amplifier is, if it's not well suited to your speakers. If that Denon follows their usual design approach of low output impedance / high damping factor then it won't do a whole lot for the sound of most low Q drivers as it's not doing anything to compensate for their inherently well-damped LF & high mass-corner. Most amplifiers of this type do not work well with such drivers, unless some form of correction is applied.
As for high SPLs, that will be dependant upon how you're controlling excursion (as well as amp etc. issues).
Back on topic, personally, I'd go with the AN cast frame models over the Decware, for horn duties at any rate. And you can always modify it to suit yourself. Alternatively, go with a stock 206 & modify to your own requirements, or Dave's P10 206-eN's (see www.planet10-hifi.com )
All I know is that the FE206 and FE126 sound absolutly amazing on every amplifier I have tried. MarantzPM300, a couple of Bogen tube amps, a couple different Marantz receivers, even an Aiwa boom box sounded decent!! And most people who like those drivers say that the Lowthers are similar only better. I think I'm going to believe a bunch of people who share my opinion on one thing over some know it all who's saying a bunch of other things I disagree with. and by the way the 206 play at concert levels...outdoors!!!
To each their own of course. Yes, the ANs are strong at 15khz, but the rising response rises more like Appalachia than the Himalayas of Lowther. I still believe OB to be the least coloured approach to music reproduction. Fostex are good. ANs are better. Lowther reminds me of the tweeters on the Bose 301: bright n' painful. But hey, everyone likes something different. It's why bad speakers exist.
Yes, the ANs are strong at 15khz, but the rising response rises more like Appalachia than the Himalayas of Lowther. I still believe OB to be the least coloured approach to music reproduction. Fostex are good. ANs are better. Lowther reminds me of the tweeters on the Bose 301: bright n' painful. But hey, everyone likes something different. It's why bad speakers exist.
Fostex FE206E
Hello InclinedPlane! I hope you won't be upset with me as this is NOT meant as a disparaging remark about your opinions or equipment. That said, I find I'm in almost complete disagreement with much of what you're saying. I'll address your comments one-by-one.
1) Lowther is unlistenable (painful) at all but low volume. These are the worst speakers I've (InclinedPlane) used, period.
I don't own Lowthers personally but my friend does! His are in a pair of Hedlund horns, powered by a Pass Labs First Watt and they're anything but unlistenable! Please don't misunderstand me, like any other speaker if they're pushed beyond their limits they let you know it as the sound distorts. However IMHO they're quite listenable at all volumes from soft to quite loud and only become painful/unlistenable when pushed beyond their limits.
2) Fostex drivers allow louder playback but still suffer from the same kind of harshness that bleeds your ears at volumes that other speakers show no trace of (like the utterly boring yet smooth and comfortable B&W speakers)
I happen to own the Fostex FE206E, FE206ES-R drivers and recently sold my FA200A drivers. I sold the FA200As because they don't work correctly in my enclosures. Before switching to these incredible drivers installed in the CarderSound Madison enclosures aka Sachiko on Frugal Horn site. I used Aliante Pininfarina speakers ---{think Sonus Faber for general sonic characteristics}--- the Aliantes are quite good and very well respected speakers. However the Fostex drivers are blowing those $5000 Aliantes away in dynamics, coherency, transparency, and just basically sounding more like live, unamplified music should and just like the Lowthers above they're doing it while presenting a sound that's not ear-bleeding! In fact it's the best replication of music I've ever heard from any speaker par none, whether they're played at volumes that are whisper soft or loud enough to make the drums sound like they're setup in my listening room! And trust me with a 40W/ch SET amp I can play them VERY, VERY LOUD and sometimes I do!
3) The ANs are my pick so far. Their high frequency extension beats Fostex by miles. The detail they resolve is probably 85-90% of the $2500 AER drivers (also harsh sounding)
I haven't heard the Audio Nirvanas or the AERs but, I have good things about both! In fact I "might' be obtaining a pair of used AER drivers fairly cheap! It will depend on what the seller believes cheap is and whether or not I can afford his version of cheap. I know David Dicks of Audio Nirvana from emails and because he joined my SET forum. He's a nice guy and I bet his drivers are worth every cent and more than he asks for them!
Personally InclinedPlane I think what you're hearing is an amp or / and wire mismatch with these Lowther/Fostex/AER drivers. I've heard all ---{except the AER}--- sound from very good to great with both solid state and tubed gear. So I know what you're hearing is not an inherent trait of these drivers!
Now have I ever heard them sound like you described? YES! I absolutely have but when I have it was because either:
a) the drivers weren't "broken-in"
b) there was an amp, wire or amp/wire mismatch with the drivers.
c) the drivers weren't installed in the proper enclosure for them.
d) the drivers were being pushed too hard and that doesn't mean loud, that means beyond their intended capabilities!
Keep trying my friend even if you've heard them in a variety of enclosures and amplifiers, it's possible they're weren't fully broken-in, there was a wire mismatch ---{unlike some others I find these types of drivers to be very wire sensitive}--- or the enclosure wasn't right for that driver! However in the end if you still prefer the Audio Nirvana drivers, there's nothing wrong with that decision either!
Thetubeguy1954
InclinedPlane said:
Hello InclinedPlane! I hope you won't be upset with me as this is NOT meant as a disparaging remark about your opinions or equipment. That said, I find I'm in almost complete disagreement with much of what you're saying. I'll address your comments one-by-one.
1) Lowther is unlistenable (painful) at all but low volume. These are the worst speakers I've (InclinedPlane) used, period.
I don't own Lowthers personally but my friend does! His are in a pair of Hedlund horns, powered by a Pass Labs First Watt and they're anything but unlistenable! Please don't misunderstand me, like any other speaker if they're pushed beyond their limits they let you know it as the sound distorts. However IMHO they're quite listenable at all volumes from soft to quite loud and only become painful/unlistenable when pushed beyond their limits.
2) Fostex drivers allow louder playback but still suffer from the same kind of harshness that bleeds your ears at volumes that other speakers show no trace of (like the utterly boring yet smooth and comfortable B&W speakers)
I happen to own the Fostex FE206E, FE206ES-R drivers and recently sold my FA200A drivers. I sold the FA200As because they don't work correctly in my enclosures. Before switching to these incredible drivers installed in the CarderSound Madison enclosures aka Sachiko on Frugal Horn site. I used Aliante Pininfarina speakers ---{think Sonus Faber for general sonic characteristics}--- the Aliantes are quite good and very well respected speakers. However the Fostex drivers are blowing those $5000 Aliantes away in dynamics, coherency, transparency, and just basically sounding more like live, unamplified music should and just like the Lowthers above they're doing it while presenting a sound that's not ear-bleeding! In fact it's the best replication of music I've ever heard from any speaker par none, whether they're played at volumes that are whisper soft or loud enough to make the drums sound like they're setup in my listening room! And trust me with a 40W/ch SET amp I can play them VERY, VERY LOUD and sometimes I do!
3) The ANs are my pick so far. Their high frequency extension beats Fostex by miles. The detail they resolve is probably 85-90% of the $2500 AER drivers (also harsh sounding)
I haven't heard the Audio Nirvanas or the AERs but, I have good things about both! In fact I "might' be obtaining a pair of used AER drivers fairly cheap! It will depend on what the seller believes cheap is and whether or not I can afford his version of cheap. I know David Dicks of Audio Nirvana from emails and because he joined my SET forum. He's a nice guy and I bet his drivers are worth every cent and more than he asks for them!
Personally InclinedPlane I think what you're hearing is an amp or / and wire mismatch with these Lowther/Fostex/AER drivers. I've heard all ---{except the AER}--- sound from very good to great with both solid state and tubed gear. So I know what you're hearing is not an inherent trait of these drivers!
Now have I ever heard them sound like you described? YES! I absolutely have but when I have it was because either:
a) the drivers weren't "broken-in"
b) there was an amp, wire or amp/wire mismatch with the drivers.
c) the drivers weren't installed in the proper enclosure for them.
d) the drivers were being pushed too hard and that doesn't mean loud, that means beyond their intended capabilities!
Keep trying my friend even if you've heard them in a variety of enclosures and amplifiers, it's possible they're weren't fully broken-in, there was a wire mismatch ---{unlike some others I find these types of drivers to be very wire sensitive}--- or the enclosure wasn't right for that driver! However in the end if you still prefer the Audio Nirvana drivers, there's nothing wrong with that decision either!
Thetubeguy1954
InclinedPlane said:To each their own of course.
Don't be silly with the snide implications now. Being adults here, we tend to try to make points politely, rather than deliberately trying to cause offense. If you feel you really must pass remarks in the nature of your last two sentences when taken together, save them for AA please.
As a personal take, TBH, I'm not a huge fan of the AN drivers, as I have found them to have inadequate detailing & linear excursion, with mediocre sensitivity. But whatever makes you happy of course.
I suspect we're getting a handle on something here. While Lowthers tend to peak at a lower frequency than some other units like the ANs, they are not inherently any rougher in basic FR than the majority of other FR drivers. Given your dislike of the FE206E, which also peaks lower than the AN drivers, and at a similar frequency to most Lowthers, it could well be that as a matter of personal taste, you don't like the emphasis to be there, but higher up in the treble regions. As you are doubtless aware, in the case of all these units, when driven with an appropriate amplifier (or with the requisite correction applied for an amp which is not as well matched, such as the aforementioned Denon) and in the type of cabinet that such drivers are really best suited to (a horn), the treble region will in fact be substantially flatter than the IB response indicates.
Very true WRT both to the driver break-in and the wire. Depending on cabinet type, the suspension on Lowthers takes a while to fully loosen up. They also need a few minutes every time you sit down to allow the voice-coils to warm up. Re the wire, I've no time for the mega-price cable brigade (life is too short, and 99% are liars, with frequent spectacular misapplication of physics to try & flog their products to the gullible), but it is also true that as sensitivity goes up, so the more is revealed in the rest of your chain. Running a class B SS amp with high DF on EX4s? You might want to run some very thin magnet wire rather than 10ga ring-mains to try to improve the amp-driver match a little. And so on.
Either way, Lowthers require care. They are designed the way they are for a reason, and are utterly unforgiving of equipment further up the chain. Where lesser units will allow you to take more liberties / get away with more, these things will let you know in no uncertain terms if there's something not right.Same, albeit to a lesser extent, applies to the AERs. When a person buys drivers of this kind, they are making a very specific move to a specialist unit which you have to work with, rather than against.
>>> Any speaker that requires an elaborate enclosure or other modification to make up for its shortcomings is a poorly designed unit...
I disagree of course. Taking advantage of a drivers 'shortcoming' and turning it into a sonic advantage is more like seizing an opportunity. Fostex, Lowther and AN are designed to go into back horns so it's up to the designer/hobbyist to find a way to maximize performance and make the most of them in their room. These drivers work admirably well in many types of back horns, bless their little highly efficient paper cones!
Doesn't mean people can't dislike them. Many do. I dislike dull sounding inefficient speakers like B&W and some Sonus Faber, as lovely as they are, can put me to sleep with disinterest. A buddy has an expensive pair of SF but would rather listen at my house. He's got a Denon reciever... best one they make i think, over a grand mebe?
I had a Denon cd player and returned it to the Wiz when it was around. Booooring and lifeless. But that doesn't mean someone else won't like it or even love it. I didn't like the Rega Planet either which everyone else seemed to enjoy.
I like when people bash Lowther tho! Gives me another reason not to buy a pair. Thanks!
Personally, I'd go with the Fostex given the choices the original poster made. I believe their drivers are modern classics.
I disagree of course. Taking advantage of a drivers 'shortcoming' and turning it into a sonic advantage is more like seizing an opportunity. Fostex, Lowther and AN are designed to go into back horns so it's up to the designer/hobbyist to find a way to maximize performance and make the most of them in their room. These drivers work admirably well in many types of back horns, bless their little highly efficient paper cones!
Doesn't mean people can't dislike them. Many do. I dislike dull sounding inefficient speakers like B&W and some Sonus Faber, as lovely as they are, can put me to sleep with disinterest. A buddy has an expensive pair of SF but would rather listen at my house. He's got a Denon reciever... best one they make i think, over a grand mebe?
I had a Denon cd player and returned it to the Wiz when it was around. Booooring and lifeless. But that doesn't mean someone else won't like it or even love it. I didn't like the Rega Planet either which everyone else seemed to enjoy.
I like when people bash Lowther tho! Gives me another reason not to buy a pair. Thanks!
Personally, I'd go with the Fostex given the choices the original poster made. I believe their drivers are modern classics.
>>>> When a person buys drivers of this kind, they are making a very specific move to a specialist unit which you have to work with, rather than against.
True. It's like when you buy a Ferrari... the shifter may suck but that doesn't mean you cannot enjoy driving the car.
Tom Waits raspy voice came on as i typed that and made me laugh (Media Player is on shuffle). Just because his voice sucks doesn't mean you can't enjoy the music. In fact, i'd say his voice is comparable to the Blose 301 (mentioned above). But put on some Duke Ellington and those 301's might sound mighty fine.
True. It's like when you buy a Ferrari... the shifter may suck but that doesn't mean you cannot enjoy driving the car.
Tom Waits raspy voice came on as i typed that and made me laugh (Media Player is on shuffle). Just because his voice sucks doesn't mean you can't enjoy the music. In fact, i'd say his voice is comparable to the Blose 301 (mentioned above). But put on some Duke Ellington and those 301's might sound mighty fine.
I was listening to Small Change earlier on today, believe it or not.
You know you want a pair of Lowthers Jeff... so do I actually, but I haven't the money. Still, I love my mate Steve's baffles with EX4s & twin vintage Goodmans bass drivers per channel (and this coming from a bloke who really doesn't like OBs all that much). The PX4 amp could have something to do with that of course...
Takes your head off with The Prodigy.
I don't dislike the 206, but the ANS8 beats it imo. Go grab, say, a smashing pumpkins CD and play it through a paper fullranger at a strong but not damaging volume. Pure torture. The upper mids sound like someone dragging a rider cymbal behind their car. There is little resemblance to the music being played unless you crank the volume down. So far...the AN8 (non-cast) has done the best job with tracks that have alot of upper midrange content - a difficult area for thin paper membranes. This is with a variety of SS amps, not just the Denon. I just don't put much faith into the type of wire or the 'burn-in' phenomenon. If a speaker requires a certain type of wire, a certain type of amp, a few hundred hours of break in play and websites worth of tweaks then how good is it, hmm?
If the AN reproduces a smoother response to my ears, less painful and less fatiguing in the low mids through upper mids than the Lowther (of which all I ever heard was two and eight khz), has better highs than the 206 (thanks in part to the Pplug) while run with the same amp and the same cheap lamp cord in the same configuration then how does that suggest the amp or wire is to blame?
My basic point remains the same. If you gotta spend huge Euros or huge build time on a horn to struggle to bring the midbass of a Lowther EX2 up to the ridiculous 111db it has at 8khz and are still left with other problems such as the harshness (ringing?cone breakup? whatever you want to call it) then is it a good fullrange driver? I say no! It gets its butt handed to it by the FE166E. The transient response or rise/decay of Lowther is awesome. But the mark of a good driver IMO is that it is engineered to balance as many of the inevitable compromises that plague this technology as possible.
I loved the detail resolution of the FS2B (formerly AER) drivers but eventually I shelved them because of that pesky upper midrange 'breakup'.
Yes my amp has a high DF of 200 and a low output impedance. Yes, the low Q AN or 206 or Lowther is not designed for open baffle. But I believe a so called 'free air' scenario is the litmus for a driver's flaws. No box to add its own character to the presentation.
Btw I enjoy the constructive discussion. That's why I'm here.
If the AN reproduces a smoother response to my ears, less painful and less fatiguing in the low mids through upper mids than the Lowther (of which all I ever heard was two and eight khz), has better highs than the 206 (thanks in part to the Pplug) while run with the same amp and the same cheap lamp cord in the same configuration then how does that suggest the amp or wire is to blame?
My basic point remains the same. If you gotta spend huge Euros or huge build time on a horn to struggle to bring the midbass of a Lowther EX2 up to the ridiculous 111db it has at 8khz and are still left with other problems such as the harshness (ringing?cone breakup? whatever you want to call it) then is it a good fullrange driver? I say no! It gets its butt handed to it by the FE166E. The transient response or rise/decay of Lowther is awesome. But the mark of a good driver IMO is that it is engineered to balance as many of the inevitable compromises that plague this technology as possible.
I loved the detail resolution of the FS2B (formerly AER) drivers but eventually I shelved them because of that pesky upper midrange 'breakup'.
Yes my amp has a high DF of 200 and a low output impedance. Yes, the low Q AN or 206 or Lowther is not designed for open baffle. But I believe a so called 'free air' scenario is the litmus for a driver's flaws. No box to add its own character to the presentation.
Btw I enjoy the constructive discussion. That's why I'm here.
I understand your specialty unit comment, Godzilla. Your opinion works well with the whole DIY concept that brought this site to where it is. But I'm all about value. If I pay thousands for a transducer, it better be done right in ALL areas, as much as it can be in this the O Land of technological compromise. If I listen to a driver that sounds better to me and works better for me with fewer tweaks and 15% the cost then I argue it is a superior driver. Am I arguing against DIY? Not at all! But don't charge thousands for something based on a popular name and the high price of AlNiCo.
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