The A Brown Soun "hemp" cone -- is it true? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th October 2008, 08:12 AM   #1
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Default The A Brown Soun "hemp" cone -- is it true?

I was reading the 6moons review of the Omega SuperHemp (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/o...superhemp.html) and came across this line:

"Patented A Brown Soun Hempcone"

(and the image of the speakers in front of a lovely illustration of a cannabis plant)

I've been hearing some buzz and decided to do some research...

1st off it seems we have a patent application, not a patent*

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...hemp+AND+cone)

Quote:
United States Patent Application, 20060013433
Kind Code A1
Harrison; JohnG, January 19, 2006
*(it should be noted that no-where on the Tone Tubby or A Brown Soun website (at least that i could find) do they say anything about a patent)

In this ap we get a very specific recipe for a "hemp" cone... and right at the start of the claims

Quote:
1. A speaker cone comprising: a hemp fiber in a concentration of at least 50%; a quantity of non-hemp paper pulp; and a quantity of binding material.

2. The speaker cone of claim 1 wherein said hemp fiber comprises Manila hemp.
Quickly perusing the rest of the patent, this caveat about the kind of "hemp' is repeated thru-out.

Now anyone that has followed the history of hemp, will recognize that the only relation that manilla hemp has to real hemp (ie cannabis) is political.

When the US government made hemp illegal, they started calling manilla fibre, manilla-hemp just so people would know that it was a substitute (inferior by all accounts -- cannabis hemp was made legal for the war effort) to cannabis hemp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp). Manilla is a relative to banana (and we know who uses that). Kenaf was also considered a hemp substitute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_hemp

Click the image to open in full size.

So if tone tubbies, et al are made using the recipe (or similar) in the patent application, they have no hemp in them at all!!!

Further, cannabis hemp has been used for making paper from day 1... (all those really old books are printed on hemp paper -- one of the reasons they are around today), and it would be hard to see a world, pre-1937, where many, many speakers were not made with hemp cones... and after that manilla hemp (its preferred substitute) so a broad patent would be unlikely to stand if granted at all.

If the above is true, the use of the term hempcone in conjunction with images of cannabis leaves would be a case of very misleading advertising.

Does anyone have some inside information.

dave

PS: i do not infer anything about the quality of the drivers with these comments.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 08:27 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
An interesting point Dave. Be good to hear from any insiders, but on the basis of the evidence presented, it's hard to escape the conclusion that there isn't a whole lot of hemp (as in cannabis) in their hemp cones. Certainly doesn't mean they don't sound good, but the reputation if nothing else does appear to be based on an innacuracy.
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 08:34 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BrisVegas
Interesting Dave. Nice sleuthing.

Would it not be ironic if, after all the accusations, Hemp Acoustics was using more C. sativa in their cones than TT.

I suspect this will be a most interesting thread to follow. I eagerly await responses from Omega and TT.

Nice work Dave.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 01:24 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Godzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York
So smoking the drivers won't get you high?

I like the simple look of the speakers.

So a Fostex ad with banana peels in the background would be more accurate and appropriate than these Hemps with some cannabis.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 02:01 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
vitalstates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: uk
I hate myself for saying this but......

please please don't take offense Dave...but does it matter???

we dont buy fostex because they are made of bananas and we dont buy lowther because they are made of martian pond weed

I thought we bought them cos they sound good...to hell with the hype...

Ed
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 02:04 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
In the great scheme of things, probably not, no. It's just a trifle ironic that a lot of people have in fact bought these things on the basis of the supposed cone material if, in fact, there isn't a whole lot (or any) of the stuff actually in it after all.

Still, to quote Yes Minister, the marketing mantra has always been 'I don't think we need to bring the truth in at this stage' so nothing new there.
Attached Images
File Type: gif dilbert2814780070917.gif (22.7 KB, 797 views)
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 05:00 PM   #7
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by vitalstates
please please don't take offense Dave...but does it matter???
It matters not a whit as far as the sound goes... it would matter a whole lot from a false advertising point of view.

These guys would be falsely using the noteriety and benefits of hemp to promote a product that is -- from the promotional POV -- a lie.

For instance: <http://www.abrown.com/events/ob.html>

and

Quote:
Nature meets science once again. Hemp, long renowned as the world's strongest fiber, now comes to you in the form of the Hemptone, Hempcone woofer.

Even more natural tone than paper, and because of the structure of the hemp fiber, even better strength to weight ratios, and power handling capabilities than synthetic cone materials like Kevlar, Nomex, or carbon fiber.
The above is all true... but only for those strains of cannabis hemp grown for fibre (hemp grown for oil seed or for drugs don't qualify). Manilla hemp is not what is described above -- it is very good, but it isn't hemp.

In 1992 a friend abd i started a company to promote industrial uses of hemp. (the reins have been passed long ago to someone who actually has worked tenaciously to keep the company going). The research leading meant i learned a lot about hemp, its properties, uses, and history. The very idea that someone would falsely use this to promote a product is disturbing to me.

(i could go on, but politics as a subject is non-grata here)

One other thing that irks me is the bit, "even more natural tone than paper". But it is paper. Just better paper. Historical aside: early paper was made from linen rags and scraps, linen is a cloth made with hemp (it has only been since 1937 that some linen has been made with flax, the best linens are still hemp-based)

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 11:15 PM   #8
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Blog Entries: 2
Hmm. Hemp is my surname. I may sue.

w
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 11:41 PM   #9
Zigis is offline Zigis  Latvia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Riga, Latvia
Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


linen is a cloth made with hemp (it has only been since 1937 that some linen has been made with flax, the best linens are still hemp-based)

dave
It seems in different lands is different terminology.

In Latvia and other European lands linen and hemp was different terms.
In Latvian language linen and flax is the same word - lini.
Hemp in Latvian is - kanepe, sound close to cannabis.

From flax/linen from old days until today made clothing, from hemp until 50'-60' made ropes, cords, sackcloth, very rare for clothing.
Hemp sackcloth sometime call jute.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2008, 11:42 PM   #10
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
diyAudio Member
 
TerryO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle,Wash.
Quote:
Originally posted by planet10

One other thing that irks me is the bit, "even more natural tone than paper". But it is paper. Just better paper. Historical aside: early paper was made from linen rags and scraps, linen is a cloth made with hemp (it has only been since 1937 that some linen has been made with flax, the best linens are still hemp-based)

dave
Dave,
From the Wikipedia concerning Flax and Linen:

History
Linen has been used for table coverings, bed coverings and clothing for centuries. The exclusivity of linen stems from the fact that it is difficult and time consuming to produce (flax in itself requires a great deal of attention in its growth). Flax is difficult to weave because of its lack of elasticity, and therefore is more expensive to manufacture than cotton. The benefits of linen however, are unmatched.

The Living Linen Project was set up in 1995 as an Oral Archive of the knowledge of the Irish linen industry still available within a nucleus of people who were formerly working in the industry in Ulster . There is a long history of linen in Ireland.

The use of linen for priestly vestments was not confined to the Israelites, but from Plutarch, who lived and wrote one hundred years after the birth of Christ, we know that also the priests of Isis wore linen because of its purity.


Antiquity
When the tomb of the Pharaoh Ramesses II, who died 1213 BC, was discovered in 1881, the linen wrappings were in a state of perfect preservation - after more than 3000 years.

In the Belfast Library there is preserved the mummy of "Kaboolie,' the daughter of a priest of Ammon, who died 2,500 years ago. The linen on this mummy is in a like state of perfection. When the tomb of Tutankamen was opened, the linen curtains were found intact.


Earliest linen industry
In olden days, in almost every country, each family grew flax and wove the linen for its own use; but the earliest records of an established linen industry are 4,000 years old, and come to us from Egypt. The earliest written documentation of a linen industry comes from the Linear B tablets of Pylos, Greece, where linen is depicted as an ideogram and also written as "ri-no" (Greek: λίνον, linon), and the female linen workers are catalogued as "ri-ne-ja" (λίνεια, lineia)[5][6].

The Phoenicians, who, with their merchant fleet, opened up new channels of commerce to the peoples of the Mediterranean, besides developing the tin mines of Cornwall, introduced flax growing and the making of linen into Ireland before the birth of Christ, but the internal dissensions, which even in those early days were prevalent in Erin, militated against the establishment of an organized industry, and it is not until the twelfth century that we can find records of a definite attempt to systematize flax production.


Best Regards,
TerryO
__________________
"If you have to ask why, then you're probably on the right track."
quote from Terry Olson's DIYaudio Forum application
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
70cm tall, 3 way, diy speakers based on 10"/4"/1" japanese ken brown drivers. facundonu Multi-Way 34 9th March 2009 04:59 AM
FS Hemptone 8"FR A Brown Soun nvrgdenuf Swap Meet 1 18th November 2008 10:05 PM
Omega Hemp 8" Cone MQ8LBomega ebag4 Full Range 2 18th May 2008 07:56 PM
Nice "Brown dogs", SO08->DIL08 adapters peranders Parts 3 3rd October 2005 09:29 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:10 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2