I was reading the 6moons review of the Omega SuperHemp (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/omega7/superhemp.html) and came across this line:
"Patented A Brown Soun Hempcone"
(and the image of the speakers in front of a lovely illustration of a cannabis plant)
I've been hearing some buzz and decided to do some research...
1st off it seems we have a patent application, not a patent*
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...OS=abst/hemp+and+cone&RS=(ABST/hemp+AND+cone)
*(it should be noted that no-where on the Tone Tubby or A Brown Soun website (at least that i could find) do they say anything about a patent)
In this ap we get a very specific recipe for a "hemp" cone... and right at the start of the claims
Quickly perusing the rest of the patent, this caveat about the kind of "hemp' is repeated thru-out.
Now anyone that has followed the history of hemp, will recognize that the only relation that manilla hemp has to real hemp (ie cannabis) is political.
When the US government made hemp illegal, they started calling manilla fibre, manilla-hemp just so people would know that it was a substitute (inferior by all accounts -- cannabis hemp was made legal for the war effort) to cannabis hemp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp). Manilla is a relative to banana (and we know who uses that). Kenaf was also considered a hemp substitute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_hemp
So if tone tubbies, et al are made using the recipe (or similar) in the patent application, they have no hemp in them at all!!!
Further, cannabis hemp has been used for making paper from day 1... (all those really old books are printed on hemp paper -- one of the reasons they are around today), and it would be hard to see a world, pre-1937, where many, many speakers were not made with hemp cones... and after that manilla hemp (its preferred substitute) so a broad patent would be unlikely to stand if granted at all.
If the above is true, the use of the term hempcone in conjunction with images of cannabis leaves would be a case of very misleading advertising.
Does anyone have some inside information.
dave
PS: i do not infer anything about the quality of the drivers with these comments.
"Patented A Brown Soun Hempcone"
(and the image of the speakers in front of a lovely illustration of a cannabis plant)
I've been hearing some buzz and decided to do some research...
1st off it seems we have a patent application, not a patent*
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...OS=abst/hemp+and+cone&RS=(ABST/hemp+AND+cone)
*(it should be noted that no-where on the Tone Tubby or A Brown Soun website (at least that i could find) do they say anything about a patent)
In this ap we get a very specific recipe for a "hemp" cone... and right at the start of the claims
Quickly perusing the rest of the patent, this caveat about the kind of "hemp' is repeated thru-out.
Now anyone that has followed the history of hemp, will recognize that the only relation that manilla hemp has to real hemp (ie cannabis) is political.
When the US government made hemp illegal, they started calling manilla fibre, manilla-hemp just so people would know that it was a substitute (inferior by all accounts -- cannabis hemp was made legal for the war effort) to cannabis hemp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp). Manilla is a relative to banana (and we know who uses that). Kenaf was also considered a hemp substitute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_hemp
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So if tone tubbies, et al are made using the recipe (or similar) in the patent application, they have no hemp in them at all!!!
Further, cannabis hemp has been used for making paper from day 1... (all those really old books are printed on hemp paper -- one of the reasons they are around today), and it would be hard to see a world, pre-1937, where many, many speakers were not made with hemp cones... and after that manilla hemp (its preferred substitute) so a broad patent would be unlikely to stand if granted at all.
If the above is true, the use of the term hempcone in conjunction with images of cannabis leaves would be a case of very misleading advertising.
Does anyone have some inside information.
dave
PS: i do not infer anything about the quality of the drivers with these comments.
An interesting point Dave. Be good to hear from any insiders, but on the basis of the evidence presented, it's hard to escape the conclusion that there isn't a whole lot of hemp (as in cannabis) in their hemp cones. Certainly doesn't mean they don't sound good, but the reputation if nothing else does appear to be based on an innacuracy.
I hate myself for saying this but......
please please don't take offense Dave...but does it matter???
we dont buy fostex because they are made of bananas and we dont buy lowther because they are made of martian pond weed
I thought we bought them cos they sound good...to hell with the hype...
Ed
please please don't take offense Dave...but does it matter???
we dont buy fostex because they are made of bananas and we dont buy lowther because they are made of martian pond weed
I thought we bought them cos they sound good...to hell with the hype...
Ed
In the great scheme of things, probably not, no. It's just a trifle ironic that a lot of people have in fact bought these things on the basis of the supposed cone material if, in fact, there isn't a whole lot (or any) of the stuff actually in it after all.
Still, to quote Yes Minister, the marketing mantra has always been 'I don't think we need to bring the truth in at this stage' so nothing new there.
Still, to quote Yes Minister, the marketing mantra has always been 'I don't think we need to bring the truth in at this stage' so nothing new there.
Attachments
vitalstates said:
It matters not a whit as far as the sound goes... it would matter a whole lot from a false advertising point of view.
These guys would be falsely using the noteriety and benefits of hemp to promote a product that is -- from the promotional POV -- a lie.
For instance: <http://www.abrown.com/events/ob.html>
and
The above is all true... but only for those strains of cannabis hemp grown for fibre (hemp grown for oil seed or for drugs don't qualify). Manilla hemp is not what is described above -- it is very good, but it isn't hemp.
In 1992 a friend abd i started a company to promote industrial uses of hemp. (the reins have been passed long ago to someone who actually has worked tenaciously to keep the company going). The research leading meant i learned a lot about hemp, its properties, uses, and history. The very idea that someone would falsely use this to promote a product is disturbing to me.
(i could go on, but politics as a subject is non-grata here)
One other thing that irks me is the bit, "even more natural tone than paper". But it is paper. Just better paper. Historical aside: early paper was made from linen rags and scraps, linen is a cloth made with hemp (it has only been since 1937 that some linen has been made with flax, the best linens are still hemp-based)
dave
planet10 said:
It seems in different lands is different terminology.
In Latvia and other European lands linen and hemp was different terms.
In Latvian language linen and flax is the same word - lini.
Hemp in Latvian is - kanepe, sound close to cannabis.
From flax/linen from old days until today made clothing, from hemp until 50'-60' made ropes, cords, sackcloth, very rare for clothing.
Hemp sackcloth sometime call jute.
planet10 said:
Dave,
From the Wikipedia concerning Flax and Linen:
History
Linen has been used for table coverings, bed coverings and clothing for centuries. The exclusivity of linen stems from the fact that it is difficult and time consuming to produce (flax in itself requires a great deal of attention in its growth). Flax is difficult to weave because of its lack of elasticity, and therefore is more expensive to manufacture than cotton. The benefits of linen however, are unmatched.
The Living Linen Project was set up in 1995 as an Oral Archive of the knowledge of the Irish linen industry still available within a nucleus of people who were formerly working in the industry in Ulster . There is a long history of linen in Ireland.
The use of linen for priestly vestments was not confined to the Israelites, but from Plutarch, who lived and wrote one hundred years after the birth of Christ, we know that also the priests of Isis wore linen because of its purity.
Antiquity
When the tomb of the Pharaoh Ramesses II, who died 1213 BC, was discovered in 1881, the linen wrappings were in a state of perfect preservation - after more than 3000 years.
In the Belfast Library there is preserved the mummy of "Kaboolie,' the daughter of a priest of Ammon, who died 2,500 years ago. The linen on this mummy is in a like state of perfection. When the tomb of Tutankamen was opened, the linen curtains were found intact.
Earliest linen industry
In olden days, in almost every country, each family grew flax and wove the linen for its own use; but the earliest records of an established linen industry are 4,000 years old, and come to us from Egypt. The earliest written documentation of a linen industry comes from the Linear B tablets of Pylos, Greece, where linen is depicted as an ideogram and also written as "ri-no" (Greek: ëßíïí, linon), and the female linen workers are catalogued as "ri-ne-ja" (ëßíåéá, lineia)[5][6].
The Phoenicians, who, with their merchant fleet, opened up new channels of commerce to the peoples of the Mediterranean, besides developing the tin mines of Cornwall, introduced flax growing and the making of linen into Ireland before the birth of Christ, but the internal dissensions, which even in those early days were prevalent in Erin, militated against the establishment of an organized industry, and it is not until the twelfth century that we can find records of a definite attempt to systematize flax production.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Yes, to a person whose beliefs and values system results in them having an expectation that other people should be honest, transparent, and accountable for their claims and actions, especially where such have been used to provide a competitive advantage and influence the actions of others.
How much talk did we hear about how the TT cone was superior to a competitor's product due to the claims and insinuations they were being manufactured from 100% hemp (and that the competitor's were not)? Now, let’s add to this that many folks do not have the opportunity to compare the sound quality of drivers / completed speakers before purchase and...
Will TT and/or Omega be commenting here, I wonder?
Cheers
TerryO said:
Seems some sources lump flax linen and hemp cloth together under linen and some don't.
http://www.hempmuseum.org/SUBROOMS/HEMP PAPER CHRON.htm
http://www.hemphasis.net/History/history.htm
http://www.invitesite.com/Articles/company/paperHistory.php
http://naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html
dave
>>> Yes, to a person whose beliefs and values system results in them having an expectation that other people should be honest, transparent, and accountable for their claims and actions, especially where such have been used to provide a competitive advantage and influence the actions of others.
Very good response. Thanks.
The drivers may sound good but it seems they may not be selling exactly what it is they claim to sell.
Very good response. Thanks.
The drivers may sound good but it seems they may not be selling exactly what it is they claim to sell.
rcdaniel said:Interesting Dave. Nice sleuthing.
Would it not be ironic if, after all the accusations, Hemp Acoustics was using more C. sativa in their cones than TT.
judging by the ability of the former to actually deliver product in any significant volume, it certainly seems plausible that the fruit of the plant is being consumed in higher quantities
Godzilla said:
an articulate cynic might remind us that in today's wikipedia environment, even "an innocent mispeak" repeated often enough can become a "fact" ( 'cause it was cited on the internets, dude), and that some of the most "well known facts" don't necessarily contain a high percentage of truth - one need look no further than certain current events for sublime examples of "truthieness"
Ah, I hear ya Chris. Loud and clear. I do research for a (very modest!) living and strongly encourage folks to question 'truth' and 'facts' as much as practicably possible... Traditional, authoritative, expert, clinical, and - although I blaspheme - even the gold standard meta-analysis derived 'evidence'. As for marketing (guerrilla and Trojan) masquerading as 'truth', well I have had a few drinks and had best hold my vitriol in check
That said, my GF has a senior marketing position and have seen that not all marketing is, er, marketeering. Perhaps most, but not all…
VERY interesting thread; I am looking forward to reading how it shakes out. Ya never know, despite the arguments to the contrary, perhpas TT does use C. sativa in their cones; wishful thinking?
Oaky, back to my Sunday session. Cheers.
Oxford Dictionary of the English Language:
flax:
• noun 1 a blue-flowered herbaceous plant that is cultivated for its seed (linseed) and for textile fibre made from its stalks. 2 textile fibre obtained from this plant
linen:
• noun 1 cloth woven from flax. 2 articles such as sheets or clothes made, or originally made, of linen.
hemp:
• noun 1 (also Indian hemp) the cannabis plant. 2 the fibre of this plant, extracted from the stem and used to make rope, strong fabrics, paper, etc. 3 the drug cannabis.
Manila:
• noun 1 (also Manila hemp) a plant fibre used for rope, matting, paper, etc. 2 strong brown paper, originally made from Manila hemp. 3 a cigar or cheroot made in Manila.canvas
canvas:
• noun (pl. canvases or canvasses) 1 a strong, coarse unbleached cloth used to make sails, tents, etc. 2 a piece of canvas prepared for use as the surface for an oil painting. 3 (the canvas) the floor of a boxing or wrestling ring, having a canvas covering. 4 either of a racing boat’s tapering ends, originally covered with canvas.
• verb (canvassed, canvassing; US canvased, canvasing) cover with canvas.
— PHRASES under canvas 1 in a tent or tents. 2 with sails spread.
— ORIGIN Old French canevas, from Latin cannabis ‘hemp’.
not taking sides on the TT/HA question...
flax (Linum sp.) is the plant used for several thousand years to make linen.
hemp (Cannabis sp.) is/was used for rope/cloth/canvas/burlap, etc.
Manila (Musa sp.) is/was substituted for hemp.
t
flax:
• noun 1 a blue-flowered herbaceous plant that is cultivated for its seed (linseed) and for textile fibre made from its stalks. 2 textile fibre obtained from this plant
linen:
• noun 1 cloth woven from flax. 2 articles such as sheets or clothes made, or originally made, of linen.
hemp:
• noun 1 (also Indian hemp) the cannabis plant. 2 the fibre of this plant, extracted from the stem and used to make rope, strong fabrics, paper, etc. 3 the drug cannabis.
Manila:
• noun 1 (also Manila hemp) a plant fibre used for rope, matting, paper, etc. 2 strong brown paper, originally made from Manila hemp. 3 a cigar or cheroot made in Manila.canvas
canvas:
• noun (pl. canvases or canvasses) 1 a strong, coarse unbleached cloth used to make sails, tents, etc. 2 a piece of canvas prepared for use as the surface for an oil painting. 3 (the canvas) the floor of a boxing or wrestling ring, having a canvas covering. 4 either of a racing boat’s tapering ends, originally covered with canvas.
• verb (canvassed, canvassing; US canvased, canvasing) cover with canvas.
— PHRASES under canvas 1 in a tent or tents. 2 with sails spread.
— ORIGIN Old French canevas, from Latin cannabis ‘hemp’.
not taking sides on the TT/HA question...
flax (Linum sp.) is the plant used for several thousand years to make linen.
hemp (Cannabis sp.) is/was used for rope/cloth/canvas/burlap, etc.
Manila (Musa sp.) is/was substituted for hemp.
t
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