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-   -   Why don't more of us use the 10" Eminence? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/129409-why-dont-more-us-use-10-eminence.html)

Godzilla 8th September 2008 02:16 AM

Why don't more of us use the 10" Eminence?
 
Why don't more of us use this driver?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-495

It looks like it could be a good choice for a powerful sounding system. I can't decide to try this pro sound or the 12lta for a large ported box system with a super tweeter. Any thoughts?

TIA!
Godzilla

Pano 8th September 2008 04:37 AM

I've always wondered about that driver. Might be fun in a Lampizator type setup.

But to choose, the beta12 LTA does it for me. A nice, nice, driver if used right.

norman bates 8th September 2008 07:42 AM

well that response is questionable.

it rolls past 2khz then peaks just b4 3khz then falls off the cliff.

Weight vs stiffness.

How detailed is the driver from 1-3khz ?

Don't get me wrong, its a high sensitivity driver and could have an f3 of 49hz tuned to 48hz in a 2.3ft3 box.

a 8" gets narrowing dispersion above 2khz. A ten is even tighter.

I remember seeing a pioneer 12 with a whizzer. The comments were "cut from the same cloth as the b20". So lack of detail.

Fun for the money though.

Perhaps if you stuck a phase plug and crossed to a tweet at 5khz (6db) it may work but narrow sweet spot.



Norman

Graham Maynard 8th September 2008 07:56 AM

The UK Fane 10-125 equivalent is very Eminence Alpha-10A like. Even has a label looking just like those on Eminence drivers.

Nice enough for a simple system with HF filtering, but also likely to over-excurse at LF if not correctly loaded or high passed.

Used here to excellent effect below 1kHz. D'Apollito with Visaton B200 on OB. Two in series can take direct bass. One on OB could not.

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Spirit.2.th.jpg

Cheers ........ Graham.

Graham Maynard 8th September 2008 08:53 AM

PS. Above post; there is not a full crossover between 10"ers and 8".

The 10s only augment the B200 to counter its roll off below 1kHz so that the B200 can run as a widerange, with no more than LF cut circa 100Hz.
No noticeable vertical lobing either.

Cheers ........ Graham.

GM 8th September 2008 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norman bates

a 8" gets narrowing dispersion above 2khz. A ten is even tighter.

Fun for the money though.

Yeah, 'el cheapo' guitar drivers was my 'stock in trade' back in the days of limited LF vinyl, XOing them to various size/price/SQ level horns often with just a cap on the larger drivers, though a 10" needs a 2nd order around 1.4 kHz when it's time to go ~ 'live'.

GM

pjanda1 8th September 2008 04:06 PM

'Zilla,

Have you emailed Freddi? I know he's played with it in his Druid clones. I recall him posting some measurements on the fullrangedriver board.

pj

freddi 8th March 2010 04:58 AM

sorry to come in late - I used the old B102 with lower Q and pleated surround - and not ventured towards the new model - which may have a better surround but higher qts and more HF rolloff. The clone had strengths in bass power handling with approximately 1.2 cubic feet airspace and its adjustable gap floor vent and no problem of excursion with a 200W amp. For me and vented designs there's such a thing as too much enclosure volume leading to poor real world dynamics. At higher levels I remember modulation of treble from its whizzer. Does Eminence design B102 mainly for sealed box and "bass guitar" application? My old B102 didn't go up as high as 12LTA. -- wish Eminence would put Qts down to about 0.3 or less and extend the treble a bit.

1st graph (2006) of pipe with piezo indoors - note the notch doesn't appear outdoors
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1912/plotswb1eq9.jpg

Input Z B102 in 1.2 cubic foot pipe
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/8366/z1ll5.jpg

Indoors 1/24 octave with no dustcap - subjectively it was better with the cap's output
as removal left a (larger) hole for the tweeter to fill
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2598/onaxislg9.jpg

Same indoors data smoothed to 1/12 octave and vertical scale changed
[img]http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8355/on112thmc5.jpg[img]


OUTDOORS

on axis and LF traces
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9922/lfwkc8.jpg

on and off
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6...2onoffwkc8.jpg

on off with cheap helper tweeter - IIRC (?) 2uF and 0.23mH
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5223/20offwpn9.jpg

effect of 3/8" vs 3/4" vs zero vent gap outdoors
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1536/gapwqn9.jpg

look how weak B20 measures on the bottom vs B102 indoors in this pipe
in the same spot - why did B20 do so poorly in the same pipe spl-wise on the bottom?
(its anti-dynamic!)
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9...02vsb20zy6.jpg

old version B102 vs 12LTA on-axis outdoors in EV Aristocrat
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/1...vsb10214tq.jpg

soundstage's measurements of an old Druid
SoundStage! Measurements - Zu Cable Druid Loudspeakers (9/2002)

Nirvana's Super10 in a 70L reflex tuned to 42Hz had no bass-midbass dynamics - but a sharp top octave

Keriwena 8th March 2010 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 1604594)
Why don't more of us use this driver?

Parts-Express.com:Eminence Legend B102 10" Bass Guitar Speaker | bass guitar speaker electric 4x 2x cabinet jensen celestion crate fender

It looks like it could be a good choice for a powerful sounding system. I can't decide to try this pro sound or the 12lta for a large ported box system with a super tweeter. Any thoughts?

TIA!
Godzilla

My first thought is that musicians like speakers with coloration. They revel in the different tonal characters found in otherwise identical drivers, and swap them out like a woman changing her hat to suit her mood. MI speaker vendors are no more going to make only 'flat' guitar speakers than a millinary shop would stock only black hats.

The second thing that comes to mind is that especially for a bass driver, all else is secondary to limiting the max excursion. This is a concern that few home hifi listeners really encounter, and all that engineering and expense would be better directed towards low coloration and extended frequency response, no? Granted, the second thing they worry about is efficiency, and that has a strong appeal, especially for the SET crowd, but if that's what you want then stick to PA speakers, and leave the guitar/bass speakers to those producing music rather than reproducing it.

Just my humble opinion based on 40 years in the music biz. :)


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