Why don't more of us use this driver?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-495
It looks like it could be a good choice for a powerful sounding system. I can't decide to try this pro sound or the 12lta for a large ported box system with a super tweeter. Any thoughts?
TIA!
Godzilla
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-495
It looks like it could be a good choice for a powerful sounding system. I can't decide to try this pro sound or the 12lta for a large ported box system with a super tweeter. Any thoughts?
TIA!
Godzilla
well that response is questionable.
it rolls past 2khz then peaks just b4 3khz then falls off the cliff.
Weight vs stiffness.
How detailed is the driver from 1-3khz ?
Don't get me wrong, its a high sensitivity driver and could have an f3 of 49hz tuned to 48hz in a 2.3ft3 box.
a 8" gets narrowing dispersion above 2khz. A ten is even tighter.
I remember seeing a pioneer 12 with a whizzer. The comments were "cut from the same cloth as the b20". So lack of detail.
Fun for the money though.
Perhaps if you stuck a phase plug and crossed to a tweet at 5khz (6db) it may work but narrow sweet spot.
Norman
it rolls past 2khz then peaks just b4 3khz then falls off the cliff.
Weight vs stiffness.
How detailed is the driver from 1-3khz ?
Don't get me wrong, its a high sensitivity driver and could have an f3 of 49hz tuned to 48hz in a 2.3ft3 box.
a 8" gets narrowing dispersion above 2khz. A ten is even tighter.
I remember seeing a pioneer 12 with a whizzer. The comments were "cut from the same cloth as the b20". So lack of detail.
Fun for the money though.
Perhaps if you stuck a phase plug and crossed to a tweet at 5khz (6db) it may work but narrow sweet spot.
Norman
The UK Fane 10-125 equivalent is very Eminence Alpha-10A like. Even has a label looking just like those on Eminence drivers.
Nice enough for a simple system with HF filtering, but also likely to over-excurse at LF if not correctly loaded or high passed.
Used here to excellent effect below 1kHz. D'Apollito with Visaton B200 on OB. Two in series can take direct bass. One on OB could not.
Cheers ........ Graham.
Nice enough for a simple system with HF filtering, but also likely to over-excurse at LF if not correctly loaded or high passed.
Used here to excellent effect below 1kHz. D'Apollito with Visaton B200 on OB. Two in series can take direct bass. One on OB could not.
Cheers ........ Graham.
sorry to come in late - I used the old B102 with lower Q and pleated surround - and not ventured towards the new model - which may have a better surround but higher qts and more HF rolloff. The clone had strengths in bass power handling with approximately 1.2 cubic feet airspace and its adjustable gap floor vent and no problem of excursion with a 200W amp. For me and vented designs there's such a thing as too much enclosure volume leading to poor real world dynamics. At higher levels I remember modulation of treble from its whizzer. Does Eminence design B102 mainly for sealed box and "bass guitar" application? My old B102 didn't go up as high as 12LTA. -- wish Eminence would put Qts down to about 0.3 or less and extend the treble a bit.
1st graph (2006) of pipe with piezo indoors - note the notch doesn't appear outdoors
Input Z B102 in 1.2 cubic foot pipe
Indoors 1/24 octave with no dustcap - subjectively it was better with the cap's output
as removal left a (larger) hole for the tweeter to fill
Same indoors data smoothed to 1/12 octave and vertical scale changed
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8355/on112thmc5.jpg[img]
OUTDOORS
on axis and LF traces
[IMGDEAD]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9922/lfwkc8.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
on and off
[IMGDEAD]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6595/b102onoffwkc8.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
on off with cheap helper tweeter - IIRC (?) 2uF and 0.23mH
[IMGDEAD]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5223/20offwpn9.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
effect of 3/8" vs 3/4" vs zero vent gap outdoors
[IMGDEAD]http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1536/gapwqn9.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
look how weak B20 measures on the bottom vs B102 indoors in this pipe
in the same spot - why did B20 do so poorly in the same pipe spl-wise on the bottom?
(its anti-dynamic!)
[IMGDEAD]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9155/fr102vsb20zy6.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
old version B102 vs 12LTA on-axis outdoors in EV Aristocrat
[IMGDEAD]http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/1102/12ltvsb10214tq.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
soundstage's measurements of an old Druid
[url=http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/zucable_druid/]SoundStage! Measurements - Zu Cable Druid Loudspeakers (9/2002)[/url]
Nirvana's Super10 in a 70L reflex tuned to 42Hz had no bass-midbass dynamics - but a sharp top octave
1st graph (2006) of pipe with piezo indoors - note the notch doesn't appear outdoors
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Input Z B102 in 1.2 cubic foot pipe
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Indoors 1/24 octave with no dustcap - subjectively it was better with the cap's output
as removal left a (larger) hole for the tweeter to fill
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Same indoors data smoothed to 1/12 octave and vertical scale changed
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8355/on112thmc5.jpg[img]
OUTDOORS
on axis and LF traces
[IMGDEAD]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9922/lfwkc8.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
on and off
[IMGDEAD]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6595/b102onoffwkc8.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
on off with cheap helper tweeter - IIRC (?) 2uF and 0.23mH
[IMGDEAD]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5223/20offwpn9.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
effect of 3/8" vs 3/4" vs zero vent gap outdoors
[IMGDEAD]http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1536/gapwqn9.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
look how weak B20 measures on the bottom vs B102 indoors in this pipe
in the same spot - why did B20 do so poorly in the same pipe spl-wise on the bottom?
(its anti-dynamic!)
[IMGDEAD]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9155/fr102vsb20zy6.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
old version B102 vs 12LTA on-axis outdoors in EV Aristocrat
[IMGDEAD]http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/1102/12ltvsb10214tq.jpg[/IMGDEAD]
soundstage's measurements of an old Druid
[url=http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/zucable_druid/]SoundStage! Measurements - Zu Cable Druid Loudspeakers (9/2002)[/url]
Nirvana's Super10 in a 70L reflex tuned to 42Hz had no bass-midbass dynamics - but a sharp top octave
Last edited:
My first thought is that musicians like speakers with coloration. They revel in the different tonal characters found in otherwise identical drivers, and swap them out like a woman changing her hat to suit her mood. MI speaker vendors are no more going to make only 'flat' guitar speakers than a millinary shop would stock only black hats.
The second thing that comes to mind is that especially for a bass driver, all else is secondary to limiting the max excursion. This is a concern that few home hifi listeners really encounter, and all that engineering and expense would be better directed towards low coloration and extended frequency response, no? Granted, the second thing they worry about is efficiency, and that has a strong appeal, especially for the SET crowd, but if that's what you want then stick to PA speakers, and leave the guitar/bass speakers to those producing music rather than reproducing it.
Just my humble opinion based on 40 years in the music biz.
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