Horn responses

[AuroraB]

I've got this fix, - I want to build a horn loudspeaker!
There are several likely candidates - the Hedlund, the Jericho, Mauhorns........
Ultimately I would like to build a Westminster, but the pumped up prices of the drivers are project prohibitive.

One thing that I'm missing, are some response plots.. particularly of the low end. Have anybody seens an F-plot of the Hedlunds?

I mostly listen to classical these days,-- some jazz-rock ( large bands with horn sections ) and some jazz.
I'd really like to have a good bass end.....

How are the original Lowther designs in the light of the day?
(Most of the lowther designs are fairly old...)

[Scottmoose]

We need a bit more to go on... a BLH is no different to any other speaker enclosure: you design it for a specific driver. They can be more forgiving in some cases than other types of cab., but that's not invariable. So, with that in mind...
a) What drivers have you got / are wanting to use?
b) How large is the room?
c) What's the rest of your system like?

FWIW, as you clearly want some LF grunt, I'd suggest you don't go for anything smaller than an 8in driver. And, of the cabinets you mention, the Jerico, IMO, is probably the best. But there are other options too, so you might want to look around. The Frugal-horn site has quite a few offerings that are worth exploring. The DIY Lowther cabinets I'm not sold on. The Acousta for e.g. is very old now, & wasn't all that great even when new, while the others are (also IMO) over complicated for what you get.

[AuroraB]

double

[AuroraB]

Thanks Scott. I was just hoping for you to chime in.
I've been around loudspeakers for appx 40 years or so, ( I'm 55 ). My first ever somewhat serious build in the very early 70s was a TL ( of sorts) called the Maze, with TwinAxom 8's, top augmented with a Peerless HT225 ( I think).
I've had this horn fix for several years, but never gotten around to do anything about it.( Haven't really studied horns in any great detail)
In fact, - I've been unable to something serious for myself in the last 10 years - short of reading about what you other guys have done. Finally , I can move on! I'll be moving house in a month or so, - in fact going back to the very same house I sold some years ago! The living room is around 50 sqm, not square, more of a degenerated T-shape- ceiling height is 245 cm. My stuff will reside in the right end of the top bar of the T - appx 4x5m, opening to the left to the rest of the area.

My amp at the moment, is my old Borbely Servo 100 ( Hitachi VFETs), an old Kaneda, and my TD125 ( or the Lenco L-85) and a Tascam CD-301. Rather mediocre all the way, - but still OK.

Speakers for a horn.... Lowthers are sometimes available at OK prices, but I was thinking about Fostex 206,207,208- most certainly nothing smaller that 8". Have also been thinking about the Beyma or P-Audio coaxials. How about a Jericho clone with a 12" coaxial.....( I know - it'll be to big)....I really don't know anything about the ANs and Hemps, other than what I've read here.
I've been following the BIB thread with great interest, but somehow I'm leaning towards something more efficient -- 98-100 dB. The Passlabs Aleph stuff - and Firstwatt - are intriguingly uncomplicated. I also have about 1m3 of NOS tubes stashed away!

Off the top of my head, I'd say the Jericho, or similar, is closest at the moment, but I'm truly open to other suggestions.
The Hedlund is quite showpiece, though...any possible drop-in replacements for the Lowthers...( chamber adjustments accepted )....?

Still pretty unclear.. no?
BTW- the woodwork is no problem.......

[Eva]

Have you considered 3-way with dedicated bass, midrange and tweeter horns? This is quite different to small drivers loaded by back horns heavily reduced in size and not providing adequate flat bass extension (not to mention comb filtering with driver radiation).

The room seems big enough. You would need a DSP crossover like the DCX8024 (and the skills to adjust it) to make all the horns sum properly, though. I use a system like that in a big room too and I would never change it back to direct radiators.

[adason]

Have anybody seens an F-plot of the Hedlunds?

http://hjem.get2net.dk/sejrhede/Hedelund-pic.htm
scroll down fro fr response

[AuroraB]

Multiway horns have most certainly crossed my mind. I will, however need something to go with a "normal" x-over, if needed, for starters. A DCX or similar will have to come later.
Something like this asian guy ( must look up his nick here) who's been pushing his wooden midrange horns, would be most appropriate, but possibly cost prohibitive for some time yet.
OTOH - maybe I just love the "building" part of the project even more than the result....I guess I'm hopelessly struck by the "building bug"....nothing to do about it, either.

BTW- Bert Doppenbergs Oris really tickled me, when I first found it several years ago, as yet another version on this theme.

[AuroraB]

Thanks Adason....somehow I knew I had seen it before!
( My bookmarks file have grown out of all proportion, even if I really try to section things up)

[Scottmoose]

Multiway, done properly, with wideband mids & support at the extremes, is ultimately the way forward. If you want to stick with FR units for the moment, then that realistically leaves you with back-loading. You can always get into front-horns or similar at a later date, when time & funds permit.

My favourite 8in wide-band unit at a vaguely reasonable price is the FE208ESigma, although being a wide-range, rather than a full-range driver, it needs a supertweeter. Short of that, the 206 is probably the best of the reasonably priced & easily available units, although some owners of cast frame Audio Nirvana 8in drivers might disagree. YMMV. The 8in Hempsters I'm not sold on -not for horns at any rate.

Remember, with back-loading at any rate, the ultimate system sensitivity will depend on the driver. The cabinet only works across a relatively narrow region (say, 40Hz - 300Hz for e.g.) -above that, it's primarily the drive unit, & it's innate efficiency, although corner loading does tend to boost things a bit.

Ultimately, it's going to depend on how big a cabinet you can handle. The Jerico goes lower than the Hedlund -the latter is certainly pretty, like something formed by the sea, but it'll need support in the bass -response drops like a stone below 60Hz in those plots. A BIB might well suit, if corner loaded. Alternatively... I don't usually like to suggest any of my cabinets unless directly asked about them, as it's not my place to, but you might want to look at the Sachiko box, which is a high-gain design good for 40Hz. Like the BIB, don't worry about the dodgy simulated response (software limitations) BTW -it's far better than that in reality.

[REC1]

One of the first sims i did using my developed software was the Jerico. There was a major dropout at the TL/horn action. The TL action had uncontrolled ripple all the way to approx 340 Hz, this is the major reason for the design of the Dallas II.

ron